Charlestown harbour on the Forth to be cleared on June 22nd

[Mileholm]

Burntisland already has all-tide access and pontoon berths.

It does but IMHO the environment around is a mess - super unattractive for leisure boaters in its current state.

Looking at Charlestown, my thinking was that it had the potential to be nice if the piers were improved and a nice pub/restaurant was plonked onto the land to the east of the basin.

but if you had chosen to live in a waterfront village (these are not towns) like that overlooking a quiet mostly disused harbour you might be less enthused about increased noise, parking, people. Presumably people who want a bustling environment don't choose to live there.

Yea - that’s probably the reality. Most folks maybe don’t like change.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

The remaining boats will be removed and the harbour turned into a Saltmarsh with all parties in agreement.

Plans agreed for Charlestown Harbour to become Saltmarsh

The harbour is owned by Broomhall Estate, who in 2008, applied for planning permission to build around the harbour, but it was rejected.

Geoff Cartwright, Chair of Charlestown, Limekilns and Pattiesmuir Community Council said: "We can be delighted at the alignment and progress made to address this locally significant complex issue, and after our third meeting are now agreed on an action plan.

"The plan features prioritised boat removal and the expectation from the community that progress will continue to be made towards our agreed objective of a new saltmarsh environment."

 

[dgadee]

What a waste of a harbour.

 

[Mileholm]

Yes - the Forth isn’t going to be turned into the Solent if assets with this sort of potential are thrown away.

 

[ProDave]

What a waste of a harbour.

There are a few along the Moray coast that have been filled in, or the entrance blocked to prevent boats entering. Makes a sad sight.

 

[wallacebob]

Probably the best solution in a cold light. No commercial use, no community interest in keeping it. The dredging and stonework repair costs alone would run to a £ many hundred thousand. I wouldn’t like the bill for removing the scrap boats lying around the harbour, most worthless. Environmentally a difficult job. Limekilns , with a thriving sailing club nearby, has to work hard to maintain its harbour by donations. Funding for preservation and “re-wilding” will be available for Charlestown.

 

[ylop]

Yes - the Forth isn’t going to be turned into the Solent if assets with this sort of potential are thrown away.

The Forth is never going to be turned into the Solent even if you had £10BN to spend on infrastructure projects! I’m not sure anyone is even asking for it to be turned into the Solent - one massively overpriced sailing location in the UK is surely enough!

However, I am sure if there had been any credible offers from philanthropists, investors or financially backed community groups to turn this into some sort of sailing facility the current owners would have been willing to discuss offloading their liability. It’s not a new thread so in all those years people have opinions but either did nothing to create action or discovered just how expensive “assets of this potential” are to maintain.

 

[dgadee]

Owners of the expensive looking houses around the harbour will be pleased.

 

[Mileholm]

The Forth is never going to be turned into the Solent even if you had £10BN to spend on infrastructure projects! I’m not sure anyone is even asking for it to be turned into the Solent - one massively overpriced sailing location in the UK is surely enough!

However, I am sure if there had been any credible offers from philanthropists, investors or financially backed community groups to turn this into some sort of sailing facility the current owners would have been willing to discuss offloading their liability. It’s not a new thread so in all those years people have opinions but either did nothing to create action or discovered just how expensive “assets of this potential” are to maintain.

I wasn’t serious about expecting another Solent - but I am disappointed that we don’t have the interest or capital to save and use such assets for boating purposes.

In Scandinavia (which some people in Scotland want to compare us to), local councils invest relatively large amounts of money maintaining and extending marinas, and then subsidise the running of them in order to support tourism, local shops and general activity.

For example, a town/village on a firth in rural northern Denmark of similar size to Charlestown (Løgstør) is currently in the process of spending £9m on extending their public marina from c.100 berths to 170 berths. This is not just maintaining an existing asset - this is building a new breakwater similar to what exists at Rhu just because it will improve the waterfront recreational opportunities. These berths then cost £18 per m2 annually, which is £540 for a 10m/33ft long by 3m/10ft wide berth. With nicer facilities than we have in Port Edgar or most of the private marinas on the Clyde.

This is the result of marinas and similar facilities being seen as a public good - like parks, council golf courses, tennis courts and football pitches. There are hundreds upon hundreds of small and large public marinas across Scandinavia without a single berth (even if you own a 50ft yacht or Mobo) costing more than £1k per annum - meaning boating is for everyone.

I’m not expecting that in the UK, but it is interesting to compare and look wistfully across.

 

[ducked]

Owners of the expensive looking houses around the harbour will be pleased.

...there it is.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

@Mileholm I do expect that sort of attitude in the UK where people and society are held in high regard, where beneficial social and leisure enterprises are positively encouraged and enabled.

I have got used to being disappointed.

 

[wallacebob]

I spoke to locals when I was trying to identify the owner of a boat I wanted to buy. Residents liked when the harbour was active with sailors, even a few liveaboards didn’t cause real issues. The last 4-5 years has seen reduced activity and increased dumping of scrap boats. It is now an eyesore and pollution from the sunk or sinking boats is of concern. The boats that used to use the harbour took advantage of a free berth or free disposal of dreams. I think the owners have been very patient in not taking action against the culprits. I know SEPA were involved 2 years ago. There is no need or demand for increased facilities on the Forth. Culross volunteers rebuilt the pier, great village, great pub. Do any boats visit? Very few. I was treated to free beer because I stayed overnight!.

 

[dgadee]

I spoke to locals when I was trying to identify the owner of a boat I wanted to buy. Residents liked when the harbour was active with sailors, even a few liveaboards didn’t cause real issues. The last 4-5 years has seen reduced activity and increased dumping of scrap boats. It is now an eyesore and pollution from the sunk or sinking boats is of concern. The boats that used to use the harbour took advantage of a free berth or free disposal of dreams. I think the owners have been very patient in not taking action against the culprits. I know SEPA were involved 2 years ago. There is no need or demand for increased facilities on the Forth. Culross volunteers rebuilt the pier, great village, great pub. Do any boats visit? Very few. I was treated to free beer because I stayed overnight!.

Harbours need to be managed. Sounds as though the owners couldn't be bothered.

 

[crewman]

Reports in local press that it is to be converted to salt marsh. Presumably by allowing it to silt up completely

 

[dgadee]

I hear it has a slate base and there is a fresh water inlet. May take some time to fill up if silt is being washed out.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

A bit of history.

https://rbt.org.uk/john-rennie/projects/john-rennie-the-7th-earl-of-elgin-and-charlestown-harbour/

https://ice-museum-scotland.hw.ac.u... ca.1540,developments continued into the 19th

 

[dgadee]

The Forth has plenty of silt. Why would anyone want more?

 

[ducked]

I spoke to locals when I was trying to identify the owner of a boat I wanted to buy. Residents liked when the harbour was active with sailors, even a few liveaboards didn’t cause real issues. The last 4-5 years has seen reduced activity and increased dumping of scrap boats. It is now an eyesore and pollution from the sunk or sinking boats is of concern. The boats that used to use the harbour took advantage of a free berth or free disposal of dreams. I think the owners have been very patient in not taking action against the culprits. I know SEPA were involved 2 years ago. There is no need or demand for increased facilities on the Forth. Culross volunteers rebuilt the pier, great village, great pub. Do any boats visit? Very few. I was treated to free beer because I stayed overnight!.

Re eyesore, sunk boats and collapsing harbour walls are sad, but when I visited last year, those new houses at the West end of the harbour, and the barrier across the harbour entrance struck me as the most dissonant parts of the scene.

The Culross pierside looked pretty shallow and exposed to my inexpert eye, with only a Wayfarer moored nearby, but if you got in and out OK I'll bear it in mind. What were you sailing?

Neaby Limekilns is supposed to welcome visitors and appears to offer a bit more protection and facilities.

 

[ylop]

I wasn’t serious about expecting another Solent - but I am disappointed that we don’t have the interest or capital to save and use such assets for boating purposes.

I suspect the weather in both the Solent and Scandinavia as well as disposable income of the locals plays better to the argument. It’s also easier to convince people you are investing in “the people” when lots of people have boats. I appreciate that is a circular argument.

In Scandinavia (which some people in Scotland want to compare us to), local councils invest relatively large amounts of money maintaining and extending marinas, and then subsidise the running of them in order to support tourism, local shops and general activity.

I understand the argument, although I’m not sure there are any shops in Charlestown?

This is the result of marinas and similar facilities being seen as a public good - like parks, council golf courses, tennis courts and football pitches.

In fairness to Fife Council getting funding for major investments in any of those is similarly unlikely!

There are hundreds upon hundreds of small and large public marinas across Scandinavia without a single berth (even if you own a 50ft yacht or Mobo) costing more than £1k per annum - meaning boating is for everyone.

About as far from the Solent model of boating as you can get!

Given the general decline in petrochemicals both north and south of the firth there is potentially “regeneration” investment around. If you have the energy and gravitas it wouldn’t be crazy to get Fife, Clax, Falkirk, West Lothian and Edinburgh (maybe even East lothian) councils (and Scottish Canals) together to create a network of facilities - perhaps a little less ambitious than the Danes would go for! More like a Dinghy Trail / Kayak Trail and some pontoons for small boat visitors. The forth is actually quite interesting in a small boat, but doesn’t have the simple long distance options the West and Solent have for larger/prolonged cruising. I’m not sure a silted harbour is incompatible with that.

 

[ducked]

I suspect the weather in both the Solent and Scandinavia as well as disposable income of the locals plays better to the argument. It’s also easier to convince people you are investing in “the people” when lots of people have boats. I appreciate that is a circular argument.

I understand the argument, although I’m not sure there are any shops in Charlestown?

In fairness to Fife Council getting funding for major investments in any of those is similarly unlikely!

About as far from the Solent model of boating as you can get!

Given the general decline in petrochemicals both north and south of the firth there is potentially “regeneration” investment around. If you have the energy and gravitas it wouldn’t be crazy to get Fife, Clax, Falkirk, West Lothian and Edinburgh (maybe even East lothian) councils (and Scottish Canals) together to create a network of facilities - perhaps a little less ambitious than the Danes would go for! More like a Dinghy Trail / Kayak Trail and some pontoons for small boat visitors. The forth is actually quite interesting in a small boat, but doesn’t have the simple long distance options the West and Solent have for larger/prolonged cruising. I’m not sure a silted harbour is incompatible with that.

Theres quite a large "Marina" development on the canal near Winchburgh, but it mostly seems aimed at providing a "theme" for a large housing development.

Thats where the money is.

There probably wouldnt be space for that in Charlestown unless they filled in the harbour or otherwise "reclaimed" land, and there is no longer a supply of pumped pulverised fuel ash for the large scale land reclamation of the past. The listing of a lot of the structures is probably an inhibition too.