channel Isles currency

[halcyon]

Well, that's where we started, but Jumbleduck has introduced the concept of currencies being "illegal" and is now trying to get people to explain what that means. Which is tricky when it's something that he himself invented

Pete

I see your point, he excepts legal tender, then why not everything else must be illegal

Brian

 

[DaveS]

My understanding FWIW is that the only "legal" notes were Bank of England £1. All higher denomination English notes and all notes from Scottish and Northern Irish banks were promissory notes. Now that Bank of England £1 notes are no longer printed, all paper currency circulating in the UK is now promissory.

 

[lustyd]

Legal currency is something which the government has said is proper money in this country. In England and the rest of the UK, CIs and Gib any pound Stirling is included as official currency of the land and therefore should be accepted widely by anyone who is happy that its a genuine note. Legal tender is something the government says you cannot turn down. All other currency is not illegal, it's just not included in our laws or financial system and so the onus is on the person accepting it to determine the value they place on it whereas with legal currency the government takes some responsibility so that the rest of us can relax and just accept the money.

 

[halcyon]

Legal currency is something which the government has said is proper money in this country. In England and the rest of the UK, CIs and Gib any pound Stirling is included as official currency of the land and therefore should be accepted widely by anyone who is happy that its a genuine note. Legal tender is something the government says you cannot turn down. All other currency is not illegal, it's just not included in our laws or financial system and so the onus is on the person accepting it to determine the value they place on it whereas with legal currency the government takes some responsibility so that the rest of us can relax and just accept the money.

From Wikipedia

Bank of England notes are legal tender in England and Wales and are issued in the denominations of £5, £10, £20 and £50. English-Welsh banknotes can always be redeemed at the Bank of England even if discontinued. Banknotes issued by Scottish and Northern Irish banks are not legal tender anywhere in England and Wales but can still be accepted with agreement between parties.[24] Whilst Banknotes issued by the Scottish banks are legal currency, that is approved by the UK Parliament, no banknotes issued by Scottish banks, Northern Ireland banks nor the Bank of England are legal tender in Scotland. Thus legal tender in Scotland is limited to coin as noted above.

So does that make CI £'s legal currency ?

Illegal currency must be forged.

Brian

 

[prv]

So does that make CI £'s legal currency ?

Yes, as Dave said in post number 10.

If you're going to engage with the conversation, perhaps you should read it after all?

Pete

 

[halcyon]

Yes, as Dave said in post number 10.

If you're going to engage with the conversation, perhaps you should read it after all?

Pete

Sorry but some of us have to earn a living as well, will refrain from replying in future to avoid your inconvenience.

Brian

 

[RestlessL]

I have IOM notes refused in Jersey.

J

 

[macd]

I have IOM notes refused in Jersey

And so it would be. The only way it might be accepted is if someone were doing you a favour.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I don't think the question makes any sense. What do you mean by a currency being "illegal"?

Well, that's what I'm trying to find out. We're being told that not only is Manx currency not legal tender in the UK (which is no surprise, but also that it's not legal currency. There are legal restrictions on who may print currency in the UK (with which the Scottish and Northern Irish banks have to comply) but I am having difficulty in understanding how a foreign currency itself could be legal or illegal. Hence my questions.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Legal currency is something which the government has said is proper money in this country.

Where may I find a list of legal currencies?

 

[JumbleDuck]

Well, that's where we started, but Jumbleduck has introduced the concept of currencies being "illegal" and is now trying to get people to explain what that means. Which is tricky when it's something that he himself invented

I'd agree with you, except I didn't invent the idea. Lustyd did:

They are no different to Scottish notes so shops should accept them. Isle of Man is the only one which isn't legal currency over here.

 

[lustyd]

I didn't invent anything, it's just the way it is. There is probably no mention of jam in our legal system (just like IOM Pounds..) but that doesn't make jam illegal it just means the government couldn't care less what you do with jam. If the jam poisons you then that's between you and the jam producer.
Same with IOM pounds. Since these are not stirling they are nothing to do with our govenment despite being locked at a 1:1 exchange rate. Our government and banking system does not in any way back the currency and therefore anyone accepting it is on their own since the only value of a Manx note is whatever you can get for it on a given day in the Isle of Man.
Scottish notes, along with English, Northern Irish, Gibraltan, Jersey and Guernsey notes are all sterling and are therefore written into our legal and banking system - they are legal currency. As I have repeatedly said, to be legal tender the government would have to force a person to accept them as payment for a debt.

I'll say it one last time for luck...there is no such thing as illegal tender. There are, of course, forged notes but these are nothing to do with the idea of legal currency.

IOM pounds are only accepted in IOM except by those who chose to. They are also legal tender in IOM.
English Pound Sterling notes are accepted everywhere in the UK and islands including IOM. They are legal tender only in England and Wales.
Scottish Pound Sterling notes are accepted everywhere in the UK and islands including IOM. They are legal tender only in Scotland.
Irish Pound Sterling notes are accepted everywhere in the UK and islands including IOM. They are legal tender only in Northern Ireland.
Gibraltar Pound Sterling notes are accepted everywhere in the UK and islands including IOM. They are legal tender only in Gibraltar.
Guernsey Pound Sterling notes are accepted everywhere in the UK and islands including IOM. They are legal tender only in Guernsey.
Jersey Pound Sterling notes are accepted everywhere in the UK and islands including IOM. They are legal tender only in Jersey.
Euro notes are accepted anywhere in the eurozone, and also sometimes in the UK, CIs, IOM and Gibraltar. They are legal tender in the Eurozone.

 

[macd]

Lusty: you have gold standard perseverance. 10/10 (in any currency) for effort.

 

[Stork_III]

English Pound Sterling notes are accepted everywhere in the UK and islands including IOM. They are legal tender only in England and Wales.
Scottish Pound Sterling notes are accepted everywhere in the UK and islands including IOM. They are legal tender only in Scotland.
Irish Pound Sterling notes are accepted everywhere in the UK and islands including IOM. They are legal tender only in Northern Ireland.

Scottish and NI notes are NOt legal tender anywhere including Scotland and NI. See http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/Pages/about/faqs.aspx#16

 

[lustyd]

Scottish and NI notes are NOt legal tender anywhere including Scotland and NI. See http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/Pages/about/faqs.aspx#16

Blimey. So in theory someone you owe money to in Scotland could refuse payment of any kind and force you to stay in debt

 

[RestlessL]

My understanding was that the only notes that were legal tender (which has a very narrow legal definition) was the one pound Bank of England note. When these were withdrawn the one pound coin remained as legal tender for any amount.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Scottish Pound Sterling notes are accepted everywhere in the UK and islands including IOM. They are legal tender only in Scotland.

The Committee of Scottish Bankers thinks otherwise (http://www.scotbanks.org.uk/legal_position.php)

Scottish Banknotes are legal currency – i.e. they are approved by the UK Parliament. However, Scottish Bank notes are not Legal Tender, not even in Scotland. In fact, no banknote whatsoever (including Bank of England notes!) qualifies for the term 'legal tender' north of the border and the Scottish economy seems to manage without that legal protection.​

And thanks for confirming that by "not legal" you simply meant "not sterling". Manx currency is every bit as legal in the UK as euros or namibian dollars.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Blimey. So in theory someone you owe money to in Scotland could refuse payment of any kind and force you to stay in debt

It means they can't refuse anything, not that they must only accept some things.

 

[Twister_Ken]

As to illegal currency, I dare say the organs of HMG would take a dim view if you tried to trade Iranian Rials.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I didn't invent anything, it's just the way it is. There is probably no mention of jam in our legal system (just like IOM Pounds..) but that doesn't make jam illegal it just means the government couldn't care less what you do with jam. If the jam poisons you then that's between you and the jam producer.
Same with IOM pounds. Since these are not stirling they are nothing to do with our govenment despite being locked at a 1:1 exchange rate. Our government and banking system does not in any way back the currency and therefore anyone accepting it is on their own since the only value of a Manx note is whatever you can get for it on a given day in the Isle of Man.
Scottish notes, along with English, Northern Irish, Gibraltan, Jersey and Guernsey notes are all sterling and are therefore written into our legal and banking system - they are legal currency. As I have repeatedly said, to be legal tender the government would have to force a person to accept them as payment for a debt.

I'll say it one last time for luck...there is no such thing as illegal tender. There are, of course, forged notes but these are nothing to do with the idea of legal currency.

IOM pounds are only accepted in IOM except by those who chose to. They are also legal tender in IOM.
English Pound Sterling notes are accepted everywhere in the UK and islands including IOM. They are legal tender only in England and Wales.
Scottish Pound Sterling notes are accepted everywhere in the UK and islands including IOM. They are legal tender only in Scotland.
Irish Pound Sterling notes are accepted everywhere in the UK and islands including IOM. They are legal tender only in Northern Ireland.
Gibraltar Pound Sterling notes are accepted everywhere in the UK and islands including IOM. They are legal tender only in Gibraltar.
Guernsey Pound Sterling notes are accepted everywhere in the UK and islands including IOM. They are legal tender only in Guernsey.
Jersey Pound Sterling notes are accepted everywhere in the UK and islands including IOM. They are legal tender only in Jersey.
Euro notes are accepted anywhere in the eurozone, and also sometimes in the UK, CIs, IOM and Gibraltar. They are legal tender in the Eurozone.

Falklands Islands currency is in denominations of pounds, tied to sterling. It is issued in exactly the same denominations as UK poinds, with exactly similar coinage (with diffrent designs). However, Falklands currency is not acceptable in the UK, and will incur foreign currency charges if paid into a bank (if you can persuade a bank to accept such a rare currency!). It is the issue of currency handling charges that usually defines whether a business will accept non-UK versions of sterling; a UK business dealing in Manx or Falklands currencies (and doubtless others) would be charged by their bank for changing it, as it is just another foreign curency as far as they are concerned. Of course, I could usually sell mine at par to colleagues going back that way!

The Canteen at BAS has to keep a very sharp eye on cash from the inmates!