Changing Ferrari for a Motor Boat but Absolutely Clueless! Please Advise

[MapisM]

Make sure the reality matches the dream before you take the plunge!

Positively +1.

I was wondering why nobody suggested you to keep the F430 and try the boating experience first - with rental, friends, or whatever.
And it's not just for all the very good economic reasons that have already been mentioned: fact is, boating is not for everybody.
If I think of all the "absolutely clueless" folks (to use your own wording) that I met, who decided to jump into boating, at least one third of them eventually decided to give up.
See, it's a completely different thing compared to cars: you might buy a car you don't like as much as you hoped, but the type of experience a car can offer can be easily predicted.
With boating, it's very hard to tell if it's your thing before having tried it for a decent period of time.

Anyway, best of luck whatever you'll decide, and welcome to the asylum!

 

[Richard.C]

As your not looking for out and out speed I would think a nice semi-displacement trawler style boat would be worth considering. I think they hold value a little better than planing hull flybridges but others with experience buying and selling might be able to add more to that debate.

 

[westernman]

As your not looking for out and out speed I would think a nice semi-displacement trawler style boat would be worth considering. I think they hold value a little better than planing hull flybridges but others with experience buying and selling might be able to add more to that debate.

If he goes for a new Beneteau Trawler, the distributor will provide a cheap rental berth in the area of his choosing in France.

 

[Pyrenean Mountain Dog]

Dear All

Thank you for your further valuable advice, a lot for me to consider and research as I expected but some very good points and objections raised.

I did spend a day on a boat in Barbados before Christmas, but do of course realise that more time is needed to ensure I get a more accurate idea of exactly what's involved. Can anyone recommend a company that will charter a boat and provide a skipper - Ideally somewhere in the Med as I'm guessing with UK waters being tidal, it will be a very different experience here compared to the Med?

I will also, as suggested get some day training courses under my belt to ensure I'm comfortable with manoeuvring such vessels. I'm only 45 and still quite sharp, so feel confident that I'll be able to pick it up - That said I'm sure there's a certain amount of skill involved and it's not all down to age.

I think as a couple of you suggested, looking at well maintained and cared for vessel between 5 and 8 years old and is probably very wise and the way for me to go.

I certainly won't be rushing to make a decision as also recommended by many of you, I expect it to be a good 6-12 months of research before I take the plunge. I hear and sincerely appreciate the words of wisdom offered by many, not to be impulsive and make what could be a very costly mistake.

I do also realise that running costs for a boat are going to be considerably more than that of my Ferrari. That said, I won't just be saving on the Ferrari maintenance if we switch, my wife and I currently spend £10-15k each year on holidays, so that will also be going in to the pot.

However, I do want to get as realistic indication as possible on costs - I'm sure I'm not the only person here, who's seen friends and acquaintances over the years, over commit to cars, properties (or boats) which they soon find they cannot afford! When this realisation sets in, the one thing that they were so excited about, becomes the one thing that makes them thoroughly miserable and they end up hating - I certainly don't want my boating experience to become that!

Many thanks all once again

Allister

 

[kashurst]

I would try renting a boat for a few days with a skipper in the med - Boats.co.uk have a lovely fairline targa 47 in Mallorca you can take out and if you end up buying a boat from them you get a refund on the rental cost. (I think). Its a good size to get the feel of living very comfortably on a boat and you can see what med boating can be like and if you like the lifestyle, work required etc. And I would then rent one or two other boats or see if you can get a ride on other boats to get the feel of the type of boat and what's involved in actually owning one before committing the cash. The more experience you can get the better choice you will make. Try and get out when the wind is getting up a little bit to make sure you are all OK if its a little bit lumpy, as however hard you try to avoid a bit of rough water sooner or later you will end up getting a bit of a wild ride. (hopefully not much and not very long)

When I started boating you could buy a boat, keep it a few years and sell it for pretty much what you paid - sadly those days have gone so unlike the ferrari, you will loose money over the period of ownership. If you aren't good with the spanners etc, then newer rather than older might be the way to go as boats can be temperamental if they don't get used much - another good reason to rent from a reputable company as everything should be good to go when you arrive on board.

As others have posted doing a Day skipper training course in the UK or the med would be a great way to really get into understanding boats and would help you in your future boat choice, and if you plan to boat in the Med, in practise you do need an ICC to drive a boat without hassles so you would get one at the end of the Day Skipper training anyway.
Try not to fall in love with the first boat you get on, as sitting on a boat at the boat show and being out at sea are quite different things and you will judge a boat quite differently after that. Some boat designers have clearly never even been near a lake let alone the sea. Enjoy it all its great fun.

 

[Bandit]

Some of what i will say has been said before.

You are coming to boating I understand with little experience of a boat, welcome to boating its a great pastime.

However I started as a child with my father in motor cruisers 35ft ish and then got an open Nab 17 at age 25, then a Sunseeker 31, then a Mitchel 31, then a new Mitchel , then a Halmatic 34, then a Fairline Sedan 36, then an Aquastar 48.

You are intimating you may jump in at the 45 to 50ft as a first boat? I am in the boat trade as well as a keen boater myself, I have seen many people do this, some go on to get immersed in it and many have been wary of the beast and have tended not to use it and go off the idea after a couple of years.

Firstly you need some training and some experience of boats , boat handling, boat maintenance, berthing, weather judgement etc. Don't rush this you say it will be you and the Mrs and both need to be happy with what you are doing to enjoy it.

Perhaps think along the lines of a second hand 25 to 40ft boat with easy side access for the Mrs for rope handling and berthing and possibly keeping it in the UK for the first year or two to get used to it. Then progress up a size in a year or two.

Think easy access along the side decks and good side rails so Mrs feels safe.

 

[adey]

If I were you I'd do a Dayskipper theory course in the UK now, seeing as it's winter.
Then, in the spring, find a sea school in the Med that does the Dayskipper practical course on a flybridge (Maybe http://www.suncoastmarine.co.uk/day-skipper-practical). This will give you the Dayskipper qualification and ICC (a nice laminated certificate that says you can drive powerboats up to 24M, so show foreign officials). It will also give you a better understanding of what you want out of boating and what features you consider essential on your boat.

(it looks about 35ft), The going rate for an annual rental berth for that size in my bit of the South of France is about 2500 euros to 3500 euros per year depending on where. Usually this includes water and electricity. I pay less than 5000 Euros per year for my16m (I am 20m including bow sprit).

This is the exception, not the rule. Finding a rental berth for a 20m boat for 5k Euros/year in the SOF will be all but impossible. In fact, finding an annual rental in the SOF for any price will be nigh on impossible. If you want to be in a half decent marina in the SOF then, realistically, you have to buy a berth.
Renting a berth on the Italian Riviera is easier but there are fewer places to anchor overnight unless the weather’s perfect.
Mainland Spain is easier still to find a rental berth but the Spanish have a bad reputation after the Matriculation tax a few years ago (Google it).
Good luck.

 

[mcanderson]

You keep mentioning 'The Med', but where are you interested in going? Each region will have its pluses and minuses. We love the Cote D'Azur and have based our boat in Beaulieu Sur Mer. Nice airport has flights all year round from a number of airports and the stretch of coast has numerous ports all with a different feel as well as some great anchorages. Yes it's busy in July and August, but so is everywhere else.

If the Cote D'Azur is of interest then there are a number places to hire from for day charters with a skipper - try easy boat booking and this will give you some options. If you need hotel suggestions then I am happy to help around our area and wider. We have had holidays in the region for years in most of the 5* hotels.

Like yourself I am 45 so we might have similar tastes etc.

Happy to help.

 

[benjenbav]

I would say the most important thing is to find out that both you and your wife enjoy boats.

Whether your Ferrari has been a quasi race car run by ffcorse or sat in a garage and vigorously polished it's still a hobby which allows you to turn your back on it and go home when you're done.

Boats are very different and dragging an unenthusiastic spouse along is not going to be viable in the longer term.

If you do both love boats you will have a great time.

 

[benjenbav]

Also, if time and location permit it's worth getting along to the London boat show on the Thursday pm/evening where there's the chance to meet a few of the inmates here, many of whom have boats in the med...?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

However, I do want to get as realistic indication as possible on costs

For a 5yr old 50 footer planing boat in a full service marina in a popular Med or Solent location

Home berth £8 - 12000 pa
Visitor berthing £2000
Fuel £6 - 9000 pa (based on 100hr season)
Insurance £2000 pa
Routine maintenance £7 - 10000 pa
Non routine maintenance and upgrades £4 - 7000 pa
Depreciation £20000 pa (thats an educated guess but it will vary enormously depending on boat)

Add travel costs, food, booze, restaurants

You could save on home berthing costs by mooring in a less popular location and you could save on maintenance costs by doing some of the work yourself. Nobody should think that owning a 50ft planing motorboat is cheap

 

[Bandit]

Further to the above:

I would set yourself a "Time Frame" Say purchase a boat in 12 months or so once you have had some training, some experience, perhaps a charter or so so that you get a better idea of:


Do we really want to do this boating lark.


What sort of boat do we want


Where do we want to do it.


Go to LIBS and look at all the boats you can, leave chequebook at home, salesmen are your best friend while you have a cheque burning a hole in your pocket, a lot don't know boats well apart from as a commodity to sell.

Get out on the water and see if you both like it first.

 

[rubberduck]

Never let anyone sell you a boat, decide what you want, take your time, then choose one yourself. Here be Dragons !

 

[Pyrenean Mountain Dog]

Dear All

Thank you once again for all your good advice and offers of help - It's very kind of you all to take time out of your day to write.

Clearly ownership costs will not be cheap but seem affordable - My wife and I have no one else to think of - So hey, let's spend it!

I think the plan is this:

a) Charter first as suggested.
b) Get a few days training under my belt (and the wife) to ensure we enjoy the whole boating experience and are fully aware of what's involved.
c) Finally and probably most importantly, at this point we should be able to make a more informed decision as to whether or not the experience is for us and that we're happy with the cost to enjoyment ratio - I'm optimistic that the answer will be yes but I guess at this sort of money you need to be sure.

From there, assuming we enjoy what we've experienced, the excitement of boat hunting can begin! (based on advice given, will probably look around 40-45ft, 5-7 years old)

Just one question, I like the idea of a boat with a flybridge, mainly because living space seems to be at deck level, rather than down below - Are these boats more difficult to manoeuvre and do they have any other disadvantages that I should be aware of?

Many thanks again to all.

Allister

 

[mcanderson]

Allister,

Find somewhere where you can stay in a nice hotel and then do day charters. This will give you and your wife a better understanding of life on board in the med. We and our friends tend to head out for day trips and head back to the marina for the night. We spend the odd night on the anchor.

Getting your wife to agree is vital to your plans. We have been sailing for 7 years and my wife has finally admitted she would rather have a motor boat, so we are changing. Also looking in the 40-45ft range. We are sticking in the sports boat range as the fly bridge models in that size tend to roll in busy anchorages and the roll felt will increase in height above waterline.

Like you we don't have kids and focus on what we want and how to enjoy our lives.

 

[longjohnsilver]

Flybridge boats offer more space, especially outside, which for the Med is ideal. No obvious disadvantages or difficulties apart from slightly more windage, but hardly a great problem, just make allowances for it in close quarter maneuvers. A big advantage is the usual excellent visibility from up top making driving a better experience.

 

[Pyrenean Mountain Dog]

Thanks Mcanderson - Sounds like good advice.

So with regards to flybridge models, we should expect more noticeable movement, particularly at flybridge level - I guess that makes sense as it's going to be more top heavy.

Can you recommend anyone or suggest where best for me to look online for day charters?

Many thanks

Allister

 

[Pyrenean Mountain Dog]

Flybridge boats offer more space, especially outside, which for the Med is ideal. No obvious disadvantages or difficulties apart from slightly more windage, but hardly a great problem, just make allowances for it in close quarter maneuvers. A big advantage is the usual excellent visibility from up top making driving a better experience.

I hadn't thought about the advantage of an almost overhead view - good point, thanks longjohnsilver

 

[Momac]

I like the idea of a boat with a flybridge, mainly because living space seems to be at deck level, rather than down below - Are these boats more difficult to manoeuvre and do they have any other disadvantages that I should be aware of?

I changed from a 25ft sports cruiser to a 33ft flybridge boat in 2014.
I find the bigger boat easier to handle and no issue at all with the flybridge arrangement.
A good crew is essential. Perhaps more so with a flybridge boat when the crew can be out of the helmsman's view. The flybridge saloon allows a good view out - which is welcome at all times of the year.

Your plan to arrange some training is good but ultimately you will only learn from experience on your own boat. I think you would be better buying a smaller boat and building experience on that by putting in as many hours as you can for the first year or so.

 

[Hurricane]

I hadn't thought about the advantage of an almost overhead view - good point, thanks longjohnsilver

But the best advantage of a Flybridge in the Med is the extra space that you get.

Also - take a long look at the boats that are out there.
When I'm away (either in the marina or away on anchor), I like to be comfortable so space is very important.
Boat builders tend to cram cabins in because thats what people think they want.
With a small family (just you and your wife plus visitors) you might not need lots of accommodation - IMO, extra space would be more useful.
For example, our boat is big enough to have had 4 cabins when she was designed but in fact she only has 3 cabins plus the crews cabin.
This means that there is enough space for us and our guests to spread out.
Each cabin has its own bathroom so there is loads of space and you don't get on top of each other.
There is a danger when spending lots of time on a boat of being too cramped and ending up "camping" instead of "living" (especially if you are away from home in the Med for example).
All this might lead to you and your wife not enjoying the whole boating experience.

In your first post, you said that "It would probably consist largely of taking the boat out of the marina, stoping off in a small cove, or on the edge of the coast and settling there for a couple of days, relaxing, eating, enjoying the peace, tranquility and views of the coast, moving around a little within a small area but nothing too long distance"
You have come to the right forum -thats what we all want!!!

BTW - Crew cabins on sub 20m boats hardly ever get used for crew - in fact they are mostly used for storage.

A trip to the London Boat show next week will show you some of the new designs that are about but I suggest that you take Deleted User's advice and then look at the used market.

Good luck

EDIT - just another plug for Flybridge boats.
On ours, we have three entertainment/party areas - inside (saloon/lounge area) - outside (cockpit area) - and the flybridge itself (often flybridge boats will have BBQs etc up there as well)