Changes at the Deben Bar

johnalison

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I think you are right about the reputation being worse than it actually is, although I haven’t navigated the Deben before and need to bring my new-to-me boat, to the Medway.
I must admit to feeling a little nervous given the reputation it has amongst some sailors.
Although after looking into it, scanning the charts and reading the ECP, I felt fairly confident.
As recommended, I spoke to John White first, who was extremely helpful, we both agreed that the safest option would be to wait for the new bouys to be in place, especially given that I wasn’t familiar with the area and have a 1.8mt draft. I just hope the Easter weekend is not a wash out!
It may not be particularly difficult for those of us who adopt a conservative approach, or locals whose window is a good bit wider, but the penalty for getting it wrong could be the loss of one’s boat, certainly the case in the days of wood. A yacht would ground on a falling tide in fair weather with a falling barometer. Before the tide had lifted her off an easterly gale had developed and the boat would fill with shingle, causing it to fall apart. I know of no cases where this has happened but it is described in the old books.
 

Leighb

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It may not be particularly difficult for those of us who adopt a conservative approach, or locals whose window is a good bit wider, but the penalty for getting it wrong could be the loss of one’s boat, certainly the case in the days of wood. A yacht would ground on a falling tide in fair weather with a falling barometer. Before the tide had lifted her off an easterly gale had developed and the boat would fill with shingle, causing it to fall apart. I know of no cases where this has happened but it is described in the old books.
One of my partners was keen on sea fishing and, on his day off, would go to Harwich or Felixstowe to go out on a boat. One occasion when he got to Felixstowe Ferry the skipper said the weather was too bad and it was not safe. They repaired to the pub that was up on the sea wall, I forget the name, whilst there they saw a yacht trying to come in and hit the bar, another fishing boat went out and got the crew off, but within a couple of hours the yacht was a total loss.
 

Bigplumbs

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One of my partners was keen on sea fishing and, on his day off, would go to Harwich or Felixstowe to go out on a boat. One occasion when he got to Felixstowe Ferry the skipper said the weather was too bad and it was not safe. They repaired to the pub that was up on the sea wall, I forget the name, whilst there they saw a yacht trying to come in and hit the bar, another fishing boat went out and got the crew off, but within a couple of hours the yacht was a total loss.

That pub has been closed for many years now.... It was called the Victoria
 

johnalison

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Thanks, I just couldn't remember the name, it had a great view across the Deben entrance.
The golf course also had a great view before the sea wall was built after the floods. I have banged a ball round that course a few times, when the green fee was only a couple of quid. My wife' grandmother was ladies' captain of the golf club some time before the was and lived in Felixstowe until her death around forty years ago. Her house in Brook Lane has been rather clumsily modified since then. While I am reminiscing about the place of much of our courtship, I am remind of the time after her death when we went to take what we wanted before the rest was sold off. We had my in-laws with us and at one point the children came down from the attic with a box which, when opened, revealed about twenty sets of dentures, which induced a temporary loss of SoH among one or two of those present.
 

Greg2

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I know I only have motor/speed boats and none of that tall thing in the air type of boat, But having boated in and out of the Deben now for over 7 years I kind of feel that the worry about the Deben bar is over exaggerated. It seems easy to me just follow the buoys, look at the tide times, Keep an eye on your depth and only turn out towards the Woodbridge haven buoy just after the last buoy.

Maybe it is just being a local that makes it non scary. :)

I would agree that proper planning and navigation will mean that things are likely to be fine but the level of risk is very different in slower boats with greater draught and a different hull shape (i.e. a keel) than a RIB/speedboat and if all your experience is the with latter you may not appreciate the difference.

I have handled RIBs, motorboats and sailboats for many years and I would put the level of risk in that order with the RIB/speedboat being the lowest by a long way, not least because the consequences are likely to be notably less than with larger vessels and it is likely to be far easier to get yourself out of trouble than it would be in a yacht or even a larger mobo. .

Only last year a large yacht made an error and spent the night on the shingle - thankfully nothing more serious as far as I am aware. Personally I treat the Deben entrance with a healthy degree of respect - not fearful but definitely not complacent.
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LittleSister

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I think it was Shane Action who noted that wherever you went in the world, the locals would tell you that their patch had the scariest bit!

Yes, it deserves care and respect, and we're very lucky that it gets properly and regularly surveyed and buoyed, and to be able to get up to date advice from John White. It's neither as dangerous or scary, though, as many other places, and perhaps the main danger is being lulled by its seemingly benign appearance.

A grounding there made a good opening to 'Magic of the Swatchways'!
 

AntarcticPilot

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I would agree that proper planning and navigation will mean that things are likely to be fine but the level of risk is very different in slower boats with greater draught and a different hull shape (i.e. a keel) than a RIB/speedboat and if all your experience is the with latter you may not appreciate the difference.

I have handled RIBs, motorboats and sailboats for many years and I would put the level of risk in that order with the RIB/speedboat being the lowest by a long way, not least because the consequences are likely to be notably less than with larger vessels and it is likely to be far easier to get yourself out of trouble than it would be in a yacht or even a larger mobo. .

Only last year a large yacht made an error and spent the night on the shingle - thankfully nothing more serious as far as I am aware. Personally I treat the Deben entrance with a healthy degree of respect - not fearful but definitely not complacent.
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I think it was Shane Action who noted that wherever you went in the world, the locals would tell you that their patch had the scariest bit!

Yes, it deserves care and respect, and we're very lucky that it gets properly and regularly surveyed and buoyed, and to be able to get up to date advice from John White. It's neither as dangerous or scary, though, as many other places, and perhaps the main danger is being lulled by its seemingly benign appearance.

A grounding there made a good opening to 'Magic of the Swatchways'!
I entirely agree that the buoyage and charts make it a safe enough passage, providing you pay attention to the tide. But it's still a bit scary if there's a bit of a sea running and you can see it breaking on the sand bars a few hundred metres from the channel. It was like that when I left the Deben after visiting Woodbridge, and I found it quite worrying despite having taken care![
 

Greg2

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I entirely agree that the buoyage and charts make it a safe enough passage, providing you pay attention to the tide. But it's still a bit scary if there's a bit of a sea running and you can see it breaking on the sand bars a few hundred metres from the channel. It was like that when I left the Deben after visiting Woodbridge, and I found it quite worrying despite having taken care![

Absolutely - and wallowing around in a yacht with a sea running with very limited power is a world of difference than something like a RIB with lots of power and a very shallow draught. Worth mentioning the issues there have been with placement of buoys last year - can’t be relied on 100% in all cases but the chat on here is excellent in raising awareness.
 

steve62

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Absolutely - and wallowing around in a yacht with a sea running with very limited power is a world of difference than something like a RIB with lots of power and a very shallow draught. Worth mentioning the issues there have been with placement of buoys last year - can’t be relied on 100% in all cases but the chat on here is excellent in raising awareness.
Our first time was in a 24ft Snappy with a 1GM10. 30mins before HW and we were making 1/2 knot against the tide with full revs. Spent the previous night at Felixstowe Ferry listening to the roar of the water. Quite Intimidating!!
 

Greg2

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Our first time was in a 24ft Snappy with a 1GM10. 30mins before HW and we were making 1/2 knot against the tide with full revs. Spent the previous night at Felixstowe Ferry listening to the roar of the water. Quite Intimidating!!

We have a 1GM10 in our Norfolk Gypsy - I know how we struggle against a tide so I wouldn't fancy the Deben entrance in that in anything other than favourable conditions to be honest.
 

Marmalade

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Love the idea of sea breaking a few hundred metres from the channel - the Deben (and Ore) always cause the ol' sphincter to tighten slightly - with the beach maybe 20 metres on one side and the sea breaking no more than 50 metres away on the other.
I remember being told that the Little Russel passage into Guernsey was narrow being "only half a mile wide" . I thought of the Deben entrance and chuckled.
 

AntarcticPilot

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Love the idea of sea breaking a few hundred metres from the channel - the Deben (and Ore) always cause the ol' sphincter to tighten slightly - with the beach maybe 20 metres on one side and the sea breaking no more than 50 metres away on the other.
I remember being told that the Little Russel passage into Guernsey was narrow being "only half a mile wide" . I thought of the Deben entrance and chuckled.
I prefer the wide open spaces of Scotland, where even narrow passages usually have plenty of depth!
 

Concerto

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I have to admit that the Deben is not that bad an entrance - provided you get the tide right. The current entrance looks far easier than when I last entered in 2020. By comparison entering Wells-next-the-sea is far more tricky, yet hardly ever gets mentioned.
 

Greg2

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By comparison entering Wells-next-the-sea is far more tricky, yet hardly ever gets mentioned.

Perhaps because it is off the ‘beaten track‘ and not visited as much as the Deben. One of the factors in Wells is the cross tide and by the sounds of it that will be more of an issue in the Deben now that the north channel is the way in.
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Concerto

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Perhaps because it is off the ‘beaten track‘ and not visited as much as the Deben. One of the factors in Wells is the cross tide and by the sounds of it that will be more of an issue in the Deben now that the north channel is the way in.
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Wells is frequently mentioned in the Notices to Mariners in this section of the forum, far more frequently than the Deben.

If you want to see my entry last year to Wells,then watch this video from 6.50, it was far more hairy than any entrance I have had entering the Deben over many decades.

 
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