Change windlass motor... or not

[markc]

I have a Lofrans Leopard 1500w 24v vertical windlass. The previous owner had fitted an automatic chain wash system so that when you raise the anchor it was washed by a pipe that was run through the deck about 300mm from the windlass. I have removed all this pipe work because where there was a small gap around the rinsing hose, water dripped through, straight on top of the windlass motor and as a result the casing of the motor is very rusty, plus there is a hose etc in the anchor locker and I just need to turn it on and aim at the chain if I want to wash it off! Question is, although the windlass works OK at the moment, am I waiting for trouble caused by a number of years worth of water rusting up the case, or are these motors tougher than that?

 

[jrudge]

Given a new one is about E500

https://www.svb24.com/en/lofrans-electric-motor.html

can you remove it and clean it up either superficially or by taking to bits and cleaning out?

I would suspect given a motor is a simple thing that it works or it does not.

Burning out would probably happen quickly if it got wet as the current is large and arching would probably knacker the coils instantly.

Most have replaceable brushes so taking it so bits to some degree should be possible - or get a specialist to refurb. If it went and it was not high season it would be cheaper to get it rewound in any event.

 

[BruceK]

Sorry not an answer but a further query...
Are these things not sealed and water proof? I'd be very surprised if they aren't given their position as mine certainly gets a good soaking in salt water most times I'm out and the motor is rust free for the most part . i.e. If the rust is superficial and external maybe it just needs a clean up and paint.

 

[Lon nan Gruagach]

Get a feel for how bad the rust is. Prod with a screwdriver and tap with a hammer.
If the case sounds good then clean it up with a wire brush on a drill.
Then its all down to your peace of mind.

 

[jrudge]

Sorry not an answer but a further query...
Are these things not sealed and water proof? I'd be very surprised if they aren't given their position as mine certainly gets a good soaking in salt water most times I'm out and the motor is rust free for the most part . i.e. If the rust is superficial and external maybe it just needs a clean up and paint.

Water resistant maybe? The environment is hostile but mine does not get overtly wet. Most I have seen are mounted below the deck so other than splashing and the odd hit with a hose if rinsing it out it should not really get a soaking?

 

[BruceK]

Yes so too is my motor under the deck. Maybe I misread the OP. when He says the hose is 300mm from the windlass I am presuming this wash is above deck and external and so what water gets in is minimal. Either way my chain comes in wet and muddy (the majority of our good anchorage sites are clay) and the anchor locker is in a semi permanent state of dampness and resulting condensation as in conjunction to 40 yards of chain I have 60 yards in rode for deep water and emergency and that takes a long time to dry out

 

[markc]

To clarify, the deck wash hose was fitted in such a way as to allow water to drip directly on the top of the motor whenever the deck was wet.. from rain or sea and as such, over the years the top of the motor case is very rusty. I have removed the deck wash pipes and the hole is now sealed, but I was just seeking opinion if this could have caused as yet unrevealed damage to the motor, or should I assume that as it's running, then it's fine, especially as it no longer has water dripping on it all the time?

 

[Portofino]

View attachment 73687

This was externally looking pretty poor .Rubbed down 2 y ago and white Hammerite used .
The anchor chain wash outlets are deep inside the box where the shank is sitting .
The motor looks like it gets a bit splashed maybe and as Bruce says it’s gets pretty damp in there.

So water resistant for sure .Looking at it it’s been off the motor at some time before .
The huge copper wires and there attachment bolts seem clean and corrosion free - out of pic shot .
So I am not worried just wear n tear really .

So really we need to see a pic of your motor before restoration.

 

[markc]

Just an update to this thread.

I decided that I would take the cautious route and replace the motor. I had the motor delivered to France and when I was there in March I started this 'simple' project. There are 3 bolts that hold the motor to the gearbox. The first came off ok, but the other 2 wouldn't move - they are SS bolts into an ali casing. Much soaking with penetrating fluid got the 2nd one off, and I sheared the head off the last one! The only way to remove the motor was to use the Dremmel and cut the tab off the motor. Unable to remove the stud in situ, I then removed the gearbox and passed it onto my Guardianage company to do in their workshop. They had no success with a torch etc., so they took it to a local machine shop who managed to remove it.

Just to add to my workload, when the motor first came off I noticed water weeping out from the gearbox shaft. When removed, the gearbox was full of water and sludge. Whilst the gearbox was at the machine shop I ordered a complete set of replacement seals for me to fit, which I did last week. It seems that they had never been replaced, and water had been finding its way down the shaft into the gearbox and displacing the oil over a few years. As you can see from below there was some corrosion inside the gearbox

I filled in this corrosion with an epoxy chemical metal, but couldn't dismantle the gearbox any more, fitted the new seals, new motor and installed back on the boat. Although it all works fine, it's kinda bugging me that there may be more corrosion lurking deeper in the gearbox that is just waiting to give me a catastrophic failure. Here's a drawing of the windlass and I've marked the location of the part above. So, new windlass, or take my chances??

 

[omega2]

If you are contemplating getting spares from Lofrans GOOD LUCK I tried everywhichway to get a simple part for my 1100 watt motor i,e the bridge from the positive post to the brush holder, result "sorry we do not have parts for this" and that was from head office in Italy, having failed miserably with Peachment. the motor in question is made by CIMA.

 

[burgundyben]

Interesting thread.

My boats have previously been very simple, over simple you might say, a pair of engines in a hull and not much else.

But now, I'm buying a boat I intend to load up with stabilisers, thrusters, wing engine, solar panels, hot water, you name it, I'm having it, including a windlass, but your picks fill me with dread because it seems so much of the kit sold for boats is in fact crap!

 

[Portofino]

That’s just a thrust bearing so easy to repair as you have done .
Your potential catastrophe will come from the ball race part 573 , the actual gears parts 543 and the worm part 545 .
What knick are those in ?
Also I note a filler cap part 474 .With this cap you should be able to regularly draw out via a syringe a sample and check the integrity of the lub medium .
Obviously if it constantly appearing emulsified that’s not good .
What type of lub is in it ?

 

[markc]

Your potential catastrophe will come from the ball race part 573 , the actual gears parts 543 and the worm part 545 .
What knick are those in ?

Well, that's exactly my issue - I couldn't pull this sleeve off the shaft so I couldn't inspect the integrity of the gear parts.

Also I note a filler cap part 474 .With this cap you should be able to regularly draw out via a syringe a sample and check the integrity of the lub medium .
Obviously if it constantly appearing emulsified that’s not good .
What type of lub is in it ?

Agreed, I already have a syringe to do just that, although I'm not so worried about water now as I have replaced all the seals. It's SAE90 lube

 

[jrudge]

Costal rides / eBay for parts ?

 

[vas]

mark,

would be nice if you could take it all apart (maybe next winter?). Mind mine was badly stuck and I had to do a full disassemble/check/clean/file/smooth/refit which took me a v.long time but costwise was 20-30euro in seals. All in this thread: http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?293957-gipsy-gone

Considering mine was 2X the age (at least) and full of water and v.little oil at the time the condition of the shaft/gears was amazingly good. Still working fine (touch wood)

V.

 

[markc]

Thanks Vas, I just read the thread and certainly makes me feel a bit more confident to have another go, especially if the gears are likely to be pretty robust. It's just a pain with the boat abroad, it's not easy to haul big things home to tinker with in the garage. I think I'll get myself a full set of bearings, circlips, keys and extra seals, plus take a puller with me for my next visit.

 

[vas]

Mark, you'd probably need also a big hammer a big mallet and a decent workbench with a substantial vice on it though.
Thinking about fitting a vice on the lazarette but I'll have to work kneeling so wont be for long...
Only reason I'd ever go for a 55-60ft boat is to have a standing height engine room

V.

 

[markc]

A small update to this thread. Lofrans have now confirmed that nearly all the gearbox internals for my old Leopard are exactly the same as the current X3, so parts are readily available. Also, on the drawings supplied by Lofrans they include all the generic sizes for the seals, bearings, circlips and parallel keys so these are easily sourced from an engineering supplier very cheaply (e.g. all the bearings, thrust bearing, seals cost me about £50). Planning to strip it down again in a couple of weeks - I'll let you know how I get on! (when I've finished it will be just like Trigger's broom!)

 

[Mr Googler]

Triggers broom....classic

How’s the boost gauge working?

 

[markc]

Last update to the thread as it took quite a while to dismantle because the main shaft had corroded on to the main gear inside which was Ali (now bronze) , plus there is a massive spring that needs some serious compression to get back in. Anyway it was a worthwhile job - to recap, motor was badly corroded, gearbox full of water and sludge because the seals had never been replaced and I found some additional corrosion as I stripped it down. Now all bearings and seals have been replaced, new motor and one gear part. Overall cost a few hundred quid rather than 2k to replace, so it's well worth tackling an overhaul. However a few tips...

Buy all bearings and seals and replace them all
Take careful note of the order of reassembly
Make sure you have small and large circlip pliers
Keep your face clear when you remove the huge circlip, or your dentist bill will be more than a new windlass!
Have a couple of big heavy duty G clamps to hand which open to more than 150mm for reassembly.

Good luck!