Chain and windlass

lustyd

lustyd

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Hi everyone, I'm not really sure what my specific question is here so I'm just going to post and hope the hive mind gives inspiration! The anchor chain slips/jumps on my boat and not in a good/safe way. Looking at it, it seems clear that the chain and gypsy don't match, although weirdly the links seem to sit happily at the ends of the grooves. This is pretty odd since the boat is 20 years old and the Goiot windlass is almost certainly original. Looking at the chain condition I'd guess that was also original so...who knows!
I forgot to measure while at the boat but I'd guess this is 8mm chain in a 10mm gypsy. It's a 36' boat (Sun Odyssey 36.2) so I'm thinking 8mm is big enough. I can't imagine getting a different gypsey for this windlass and I feel like bigger chain would be overkill.

So, how best to proceed? Not really an urgent issue in the grand scheme of things so I'm open to ideas. If new chain then how to measure (couldn't find any markings on the gypsy). If new windlass then which and why? Maybe replace both? The chain is in much better condition 6" below this so please don't focus on this shoddy bit - I'll be cutting that off soon regardless of this solution.
IMG_6092.jpg
 
The link length is clearly too short for the gypsy. if your guess is correct, 8 mm chain in a 10 mm gypsy, be aware that there are two different 10 mm chain sizes, ISO and DIN. Assuming there are no stamped marks on the external cheeks of the gypsy the best bet is to obtain short lengths of the two sizes and check them on the gypsy. All the dimensions are on my website if you prefer to do it that way.
 
Thanks Vyv, what I'm struggling with partly is that the width of the chain seems to match the gypsy and everything I can find says 10mm will definitely be wider than 8mm.
 
I'd be very happy to change the gypsy, but it's been a while since Goiot made windlasses from what I can see and there's very little info on replacement ones.
 
I used to have a big boat with 5/8" chain, and a hydraulic windlass. The anchor and chain were used so much that the gypsy became quite worn, rather like in the OP's photo. I built up the worn parts of the gypsy with welding. Completely solved the problem.
 
lustyd said:
Hi everyone, I'm not really sure what my specific question is here so I'm just going to post and hope the hive mind gives inspiration! The anchor chain slips/jumps on my boat and not in a good/safe way. Looking at it, it seems clear that the chain and gypsy don't match, although weirdly the links seem to sit happily at the ends of the grooves. This is pretty odd since the boat is 20 years old and the Goiot windlass is almost certainly original. Looking at the chain condition I'd guess that was also original so...who knows!
I forgot to measure while at the boat but I'd guess this is 8mm chain in a 10mm gypsy. It's a 36' boat (Sun Odyssey 36.2) so I'm thinking 8mm is big enough. I can't imagine getting a different gypsey for this windlass and I feel like bigger chain would be overkill.

So, how best to proceed? Not really an urgent issue in the grand scheme of things so I'm open to ideas. If new chain then how to measure (couldn't find any markings on the gypsy). If new windlass then which and why? Maybe replace both? The chain is in much better condition 6" below this so please don't focus on this shoddy bit - I'll be cutting that off soon regardless of this solution.
IMG_6092.jpg
Click to expand...
Have you measured the chain? I'm not sure whether the 8mm is part of the guess or whether it is definitely 8mm?

Richard
 
vyv_cox said:
The link length is clearly too short for the gypsy. if your guess is correct, 8 mm chain in a 10 mm gypsy, be aware that there are two different 10 mm chain sizes, ISO and DIN. Assuming there are no stamped marks on the external cheeks of the gypsy the best bet is to obtain short lengths of the two sizes and check them on the gypsy. All the dimensions are on my website if you prefer to do it that way.
Click to expand...

You can get the same problem, chain jumping out of the pockets on the gypsy if the chain links are too long as well as too short.
 
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If this setup worked in the past and now doesn't then something is old or worn. Could be the pockets in the gypsy are worn if it has seen a lot of use. Could be a combination of two things with the chain. The links could have stretched a little over time and there is likely some wear on the inside of the links where two adjoining links connect and meet. A little of both happening can make the links too long to fit snuggly in the gypsy and it slips and jumps.

If you lay the chain in the gypsy to look, the individual links might fit well in the pockets but what is critical how well a length of links fit. Hold one link in the gypsy, stretch out as much chain as you can wrap around the gypsy and keeping tension on the chain pull it around the gypsy. The the links farthest from the starting point ar riding up on the side of the pocket then you have a mismatch.

Before doing a repair or replacement on the gypsy try a test with a piece of new chain. Easy to buy a 1-2' piece from the local chandlery and try it out.
 
By the way, the size of the chain in regards to the diameter of the metal is not the important factor. All 8mm or 10mm tells you is the diameter of the wire used to bend and weld into links. What matters most in the windlass for correct fit in the gypsy is the number of links per foot in the chain. You can buy 8mm in BBB or G4 or other grades that have very different links/foot and one will fit a gypsy perfectly and the other will not work at all. In my old Simpson Lawrence 3/8"BBB ad 5/16 G4 both work perfectly because they have almost identical number of links/ft. But 3/8 G4 will not work at all, nor will 5/16 BBB.
 
Richard 8mm was a guess and I'll be measuring this weekend when I can get back to the boat. I figured I'd post here early as often that brings more info sooner so I can get more done while I'm on board :)
Skipmac I have no idea whether this worked previously as I only bought the boat a few weeks ago. It certainly did bring the chain up but the chain slipped a few times and then jumped off of the gypsy entirely which was pretty dangerous as it then spilled at speed overboard and abruptly anchored the boat again! I'm leaning towards replacing everything just for peace of mind as I like to anchor.
 
vyv_cox said:
Have you looked at the photograph?
Click to expand...

Sorry I am not seeing a photo anywhere on this thread. If one is there maybe something to do with logging into the forum from the other side of the pond that prevents me from seeing it?

Regardless, please note that I did not say that the problem was due to the links being too long. I said links too long or too short can both cause the same problem. The specific reason for the OP's problem I cannot say based on what I cannot see. Can you tell me which post contains a photo or link to a photo?
 
lustyd said:
Richard 8mm was a guess and I'll be measuring this weekend when I can get back to the boat. I figured I'd post here early as often that brings more info sooner so I can get more done while I'm on board :)
Skipmac I have no idea whether this worked previously as I only bought the boat a few weeks ago. It certainly did bring the chain up but the chain slipped a few times and then jumped off of the gypsy entirely which was pretty dangerous as it then spilled at speed overboard and abruptly anchored the boat again! I'm leaning towards replacing everything just for peace of mind as I like to anchor.
Click to expand...

I've seen chain jumping in the gypsy but never experienced chain jumping completely free and dumping the anchor back to the bottom. Bet that was exciting.

With that experience I can understand why you might want to start all over but might not be necessary. Again the more critical dimension (assuming the metal diameter is more or less compatible with the gypsy) is the number of links per foot. This is determined by the inside length of the individual link. Measure that and compare to the specs for different chain types. Also I think someone might have mentioned that the chain is usually marked. Look on the side of the link, some chain is only stamped every 10 links or so, some every link. Should see a mark of 3B or BBB or G4 which are the most common options. EU and DIN chain might have other options.
 
vyv_cox said:
Have you looked at the photograph?
Click to expand...

OK. Loaded a different web browser et voila, a photo appeared. Time to ditch the other browser.

So, yes it seems pretty clear that the links are too short for the gypsy. Did not look like the gypsy was horribly worn but could only see clearly the outer edges of the pockets. I think it quite likely that a longer link chain would solve the problem.

Guessing from the photo that the chain is BBB based on the length/width ratio of the links. Same size chain in G5 will have longer links and might be sufficient. If not, the next size up in G4 might be required.

Best way to determine is still, by a short piece and lay it in the gypsy and look.
 
skipmac said:
OK. Loaded a different web browser et voila, a photo appeared. Time to ditch the other browser.

So, yes it seems pretty clear that the links are too short for the gypsy. Did not look like the gypsy was horribly worn but could only see clearly the outer edges of the pockets. I think it quite likely that a longer link chain would solve the problem.

Guessing from the photo that the chain is BBB based on the length/width ratio of the links. Same size chain in G5 will have longer links and might be sufficient. If not, the next size up in G4 might be required.

Best way to determine is still, by a short piece and lay it in the gypsy and look.
Click to expand...
The sizes you quote are USA oriented, presumably Imperial dimensions. We are talking metric, 8 or 10 mm. ISO 4565 and DIN 677 are the same in 8 mm but different in 10 mm, hence my earlier advice.
 
skipmac said:
Bet that was exciting.
Click to expand...

Exciting is one word. My brain very (VERY) briefly considered grabbing the chain but eventually settled on standing on it on the deck in front of the anchor locker to stop it dropping. I then had the full weight of the boat pull against it and had to use the engine to counteract the mainsail which I'd hoisted ready to sail away.
The more I think about it the more I feel these do fit. If I had longer links then surely the second link wouldn't land in the second hole because the link between would also be longer. My brain hurts just thinking about it!
 
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