Central Heating 12v circulation pump

[kitling89]

Any one out there have central heating on the boat - what to you use to circulate the hot water?

I just installed this cheap pump from Amazon which is very low power and seems to do a fine job except that it is quite loud.

Specs are:
12v <5w
260l/h
inline mounting
can handle 90C water

Part of the point of our move to a Refleks was to have a silent source of heat. Sorta defeats the point if I have to go sit outside to get some peace and quiet.

Thanks guys

 

[vyv_cox]

Modern up-market automobiles can circulate hot water from the engine when parked. The pumps used are centrifugal, effective and not expensive, especially used on Ebay. They work well in this application. Look in <Calorifiers> on my website for more info.

 

[BabaYaga]

I use a Bolin pump (EVP 500) which is quite low noise and only draws 0.10 to 0.15 A. Has been fine for over 10 years now (however few running hours/year). I believe it was out of production for a while, but now available again. Not cheap though.
Edit: Can be run with an optional potentiometer, in order to further reduse noise level when the heating is set low.

 

[kitling89]

Thanks Yaga., that sounds like exactly what I need. Only have about 1kW worth of radiators so need something tiny and silent.

Any idea where I might find one for sale? Quick google search not finding anything current..

 

[BabaYaga]

I would drop these people an inquiry via email:
info@norrlandsvagnar.se
My impression is that this company is now the manufacturer of the pump.
(Their website is all in Swedish and even for a native not very easy to navigate)-

 

[Iliade]

Do you need a pump at all? Can you not get sufficient flow from the thermal syphon effect?

 

[kitling89]

From what I understand natural convection is only possible under carefully controlled conditions in regards to radiator placement above the stove and supply line slope. The hot water will not go down signifigantly to get up.

Our supply pipes go all different directions except up and end with both radiators at or below the stove level.

I tried anyways and it just boils the coolant eventually, even on low.

 

[Iliade]

If you have nothing better to do, try extending the outlet pipe directly towards the deckhead then back down to meet the radiator feed. If you can lose enough heat from that pipe it could work. You may find that if you set it going with the pump you may be able to switch the pump off once the radiators are warm.

 

[kitling89]

Just an update, we found the Bolin Pump in stock at reservdelar@norrlandsvagnar.se but they wanted 267 Euro ex freight which is a bit much.

I'm going to try a different direction first with a pump used for liquid cooled high end computers. These are silent, ceramic bearing pumps with very long life. Some of them are quite low power as well as adjustable flow. The only issue I forsee is most are rated for 60C max temperature as they use the fluid to cool the motor.

I measured my return flow temperature (where the pump is mounted in my system) at 55C after 3 hours on high, so I think it should be ok in my application.

 

[vyv_cox]

Just an update, we found the Bolin Pump in stock at reservdelar@norrlandsvagnar.se but they wanted 267 Euro ex freight which is a bit much.

I'm going to try a different direction first with a pump used for liquid cooled high end computers. These are silent, ceramic bearing pumps with very long life. Some of them are quite low power as well as adjustable flow. The only issue I forsee is most are rated for 60C max temperature as they use the fluid to cool the motor.

I measured my return flow temperature (where the pump is mounted in my system) at 55C after 3 hours on high, so I think it should be ok in my application.

Why not do as I suggested in post #2 and use an automotive one? Like this for example for less than £24? MERCEDES-BENZ W212 E CLASS AUXILLARY WATER CIRCULATION PUMP A2118350028 | eBay

 

[kitling89]

Why not do as I suggested in post #2 and use an automotive one? Like this for example for less than £24? MERCEDES-BENZ W212 E CLASS AUXILLARY WATER CIRCULATION PUMP A2118350028 | eBay

Being Honest?

There is 0 information out there about the pumps you suggested in regards to current draw, noise levels, head or flow at different voltages, or MTTF.
I don't even know what the motor is or if it would work with the PWM I plan to use to control the pump speed.
Adapting that inlet + outlet configuration to 10mm hard radiator tube will be challenging.
For that price I can get a brand new pump with ceramic bearings designed for this purpose that I know is quiet.

Am I missing something?

 

[Fergal]

We have a Jabsco '59529-000B ecocide pump ' that is used in our Refleks heating system. No cheap though.

We had to initially adjust the pump rate to reduce the noise but effectively silent in operation. Has been in use for >10 years now with no issues 0Fingers crossed!)

 

[kitling89]

Thanks for that. It looks very similar to the type of pump vyv_cox is recommending.
Do you know approximately how many amps it draws when you turned it down? Full power is listed at 2A!
Also how did you turn it down? It has speed adjustment built in I see.

 

[cherod]

internet has lots of " circulation " pumps,, looks like decent ones are around 80£ . also Seaflo do a pump ( series 33 , max temp 60 c ) £ 70 .

 

[vyv_cox]

Being Honest?

There is 0 information out there about the pumps you suggested in regards to current draw, noise levels, head or flow at different voltages, or MTTF.
I don't even know what the motor is or if it would work with the PWM I plan to use to control the pump speed.
Adapting that inlet + outlet configuration to 10mm hard radiator tube will be challenging.
For that price I can get a brand new pump with ceramic bearings designed for this purpose that I know is quiet.

Am I missing something?

I don't know the characteristics but I do know that this type of pump, intended to circulate engine coolant when the vehicle is parked, works well driving water through calorifier heating coils. Noise levels in the ones I have are low. Magnetic drive copes well with seawater or coolant. No seal to fail.

Its advantage of course, my suggestion is only an example, is that it is cheap enough to try, even selling on if it is not satisfactory.

 

[BabaYaga]

Just an update, we found the Bolin Pump in stock at reservdelar@norrlandsvagnar.se but they wanted 267 Euro ex freight which is a bit much.

Since I was the one who pointed you there, have to say I did not know they were that much now.
(Always saw the Baby Blake as the most extravagant item onbord my boat, may have to rethink this...)

 

[Fergal]

Thanks for that. It looks very similar to the type of pump vyv_cox is recommending.
Do you know approximately how many amps it draws when you turned it down? Full power is listed at 2A!
Also how did you turn it down? It has speed adjustment built in I see.

There is quite a bit of technical detail on the Jabsco website.

It states that the "Adjustable power consumption – high efficiency (0.25 to 1.7amp)" so assume the 0.25amps on its lowest setting.

It hardly registers on our battery meter on the boat.

 

[kitling89]

Just an update for anyone who finds this in the future:

To be sure I ordered a cheap Chinese version of a DDC pump for water cooled computers.
Was £16 on fleabay 12V Super Silent Mini Water Circulation Pump for PC Water Cooling System | eBay for a grand total of less than £20 with G1/4 fittings I figured I would give it a try before spashing on the more expensive pumps.

Was pleasatly suprised to find it is absolutly silent (after primed properly) and draws about .4 amp under load.

For reference I have a Refleks 66 with two radiators and about 20m worth of 10mm pipe.

My only concern would be that it is rated to 60C. Not a problem on our system but may be for some.

 

[mhember]

Hi,

Thanks for saving this - really useful.

I've got a REFLEX 66M and am researching fitting a pumped hot water heating system to our boat - so I was looking at Circ pumps.

However - I did not think it was possible to get a version of the Refleks 66 with a hot water coil - did you fit that? Can you give me more details?

I thought we were going to have to move to a 2000K which is a pain as it has a rear-exit flue etc and will take more space. We need to fit five radiators.

Any detail gratefully received.....

Yours aye

Marcus

Just an update for anyone who finds this in the future:

To be sure I ordered a cheap Chinese version of a DDC pump for water cooled computers.
Was £16 on fleabay 12V Super Silent Mini Water Circulation Pump for PC Water Cooling System | eBay for a grand total of less than £20 with G1/4 fittings I figured I would give it a try before spashing on the more expensive pumps.

Was pleasatly suprised to find it is absolutly silent (after primed properly) and draws about .4 amp under load.

For reference I have a Refleks 66 with two radiators and about 20m worth of 10mm pipe.

My only concern would be that it is rated to 60C. Not a problem on our system but may be for some.

 

[kitling89]

Hi Marcus,

1 - if you want a 66 with heating coil it is the '66 MS' seen here: REFLEKS oil heater 66MS / 66MS-C

2 - 5 radiators! you need to add up the total output of all the radiators to estimate if the stove you are considering will have enough power to keep them all warm enough to be useful. for example, the WARM WATER on 66MS is 0.9 kW vs 2000KV is 2.7 kw, that is 3 times as much on the 2000KV!!

3 - the pump I recommended previously ended up failing, hard to say why but upon further research most computer cooling systems should be run at max 60C vs the 80-90C that my stove can make. I have this now and it has served well (but louder) over the last 2 years from Greenland to Patagonia where we are now for the winter:
Solid&Quiet 12V DC Solar 212°F Hot Water Circulation Pump Brushless Motor 9.8FT | eBay

PS: we wish we had gotten a model with the hot plate, not really for cooking but for ease of lighting and cleaning...