Lodds
Well-Known Member
Does anyone have any experience of the effects of removing the front baby stay. I would like to install a self
Tacking rig.
Thanks in advance
Tacking rig.
Thanks in advance
Centaur baby stay
- Thread starter Lodds
- Start date
Tranona
Well-Known Member
The baystay is an essential part of the rig. So not to be removed permanently as it provides support for the centre part of the spar instead of a pair of forward lowers.
VicS
Well-Known Member
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Maybe, but seems Centaurs suffer from problems of somewhere to attach lowers as the aft one, at least on the early boats, gives problems as it is close to a window.
Not sure of the benefit of a self tacker, particularly as the rig relies on an overlapping genoa and loss of sail area will probably reduce performance, particularly off wind.
Not sure of the benefit of a self tacker, particularly as the rig relies on an overlapping genoa and loss of sail area will probably reduce performance, particularly off wind.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure that in my WOA-member days I read something about modifying a Centaur to get rid of the babystay. Someone there should know.
30boat
N/A
I t depends on the rig and the mast stiffness.The original mast was probably not deemed rigid enough to do without a babystay so if you're removing it you'll need another way of supporting that part of the rig,forward lowers being the only thing I can think of.
The point about the loss of sail area is a good one.
The point about the loss of sail area is a good one.
Seajet
...
I sailed with Lodds this last couple of days on my boat and we discussed this; the idea is indeed to fit forward lowers instead of the baby stay.
A self tacker has particular appeal as he is usually solo or shorthanded at the end of a narrow channel; it would be allied to a light genoa / chute on a roller ahead of the self tacker's forestay ( which might be a new position just aft of the present one, or a short sprit for the furler ).
At present the baby stay ( which does have a roller sleeve ) makes short tacking a right pain.
The mast is very robust, it and the boat are in excellent nick; I think the proposed rig would be jolly handy, I wouldn't mind something like that myself.
Very much at the idea stage but Lodds doesn't hang about, he knows a good rigger and is going to chat with him; could be some interesting photo's on here in a little while...
A self tacker has particular appeal as he is usually solo or shorthanded at the end of a narrow channel; it would be allied to a light genoa / chute on a roller ahead of the self tacker's forestay ( which might be a new position just aft of the present one, or a short sprit for the furler ).
At present the baby stay ( which does have a roller sleeve ) makes short tacking a right pain.
The mast is very robust, it and the boat are in excellent nick; I think the proposed rig would be jolly handy, I wouldn't mind something like that myself.
Very much at the idea stage but Lodds doesn't hang about, he knows a good rigger and is going to chat with him; could be some interesting photo's on here in a little while...
rogerball0
N/A
A couple of Centaurs ive seen it done on have indeed replaced the babystay with forward lowers either side, one an American boat and one a German boat i'll dig some pics out, if memory serves the German boat had a gert great track across the forecabin roof, quite substantial if i remember. I had a similar idea to lose the babystay and bring a forward lower shroud down onto the forecabin bulkhead so it'd be through-bolted into the boats structure as on mine the existing babystay is aft of the forehatch which is the bulkhead line so no loss of rig geometry = mast still stays stiff fore/aft.
Didn't bother in the end after consulting the guy who re designed my boats rig as it was deemed fine where it was and wasn't particularly intereted in a self tacker but i do see the advantages in such a rig, me though - i just want more sail area.
Didn't bother in the end after consulting the guy who re designed my boats rig as it was deemed fine where it was and wasn't particularly intereted in a self tacker but i do see the advantages in such a rig, me though - i just want more sail area.
Seajet
...
rogerball0,
that's interesting; I'm pretty sure Lodds' idea is to have the self tacker on roller reefing, and use the ( also on roller / furler ) large light genoa or tri radial chute as boost when suitable, as when close hauled the self tacker would probably have sufficient area; the slot needs thinking about of course, ie as good as possible with a self tacker.
Just for comfortable handy cruising of course.
that's interesting; I'm pretty sure Lodds' idea is to have the self tacker on roller reefing, and use the ( also on roller / furler ) large light genoa or tri radial chute as boost when suitable, as when close hauled the self tacker would probably have sufficient area; the slot needs thinking about of course, ie as good as possible with a self tacker.
Just for comfortable handy cruising of course.
rogerball0
N/A
Heres the German boat:
I'll have a root around on my other PC for the American boat, apologies for the above picture quality, the original was a thumbnail.
I'll have a root around on my other PC for the American boat, apologies for the above picture quality, the original was a thumbnail.
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sailorman
Well-Known Member
that arrangement of the triangulated stays is to allow the mast to be lowered
Tam Lin
Well-Known Member
Seajet, "At present the baby stay ( which does have a roller sleeve ) makes short tacking a right pain."
What is a roller sleeve?
Since sailing Tam Lin this year I have found when tacking, especially in light winds, the Genoa sheets catch on the
Babystay. At the moment they are fastened to the sail with a shackle, which also catches. Will be thinking of ways to correct this over the winter.
What is a roller sleeve?
Since sailing Tam Lin this year I have found when tacking, especially in light winds, the Genoa sheets catch on the
Babystay. At the moment they are fastened to the sail with a shackle, which also catches. Will be thinking of ways to correct this over the winter.
Seajet
...
Tam Lin,
the ' roller sleeve ' is my way of describing a simple plastic tube slightly larger diameter than the stay, so it's free to rotate; in this case it runs the whole length of the baby stay from splice to splice, fitted by a rigger; I'd guess there must be simpler cheaper ways of fitting something like this with a split in it, but I have no personal experience of owning a boat with a baby stay so dunno.
The sail - and sheets - are free to roll over the stay, it helps but tacking is still a pain on Lodds's boat; we have tried soft bowlines to attach the sheets, with the loose ends whipped tight so as not to snag - slight improvement over the carabiner the boat came with, which predictably snapped onto the stay !
I use a closed shackle on my boat, I forget the name at the moment but imagine a stainless ' C ' with a threaded portion closeing the open bit, so nothing to catch; but even this is not ideal when Lodds tried it with the babystay, and yes we are used to short tacking and timing the sail coming across.
Personally I'm sure replacing the baby stay with forward lowers is the answer to tacking a normal headsail, the self tacker and big chute on roller reefing foils an extra - pretty near perfection for short handed cruising.
the ' roller sleeve ' is my way of describing a simple plastic tube slightly larger diameter than the stay, so it's free to rotate; in this case it runs the whole length of the baby stay from splice to splice, fitted by a rigger; I'd guess there must be simpler cheaper ways of fitting something like this with a split in it, but I have no personal experience of owning a boat with a baby stay so dunno.
The sail - and sheets - are free to roll over the stay, it helps but tacking is still a pain on Lodds's boat; we have tried soft bowlines to attach the sheets, with the loose ends whipped tight so as not to snag - slight improvement over the carabiner the boat came with, which predictably snapped onto the stay !
I use a closed shackle on my boat, I forget the name at the moment but imagine a stainless ' C ' with a threaded portion closeing the open bit, so nothing to catch; but even this is not ideal when Lodds tried it with the babystay, and yes we are used to short tacking and timing the sail coming across.
Personally I'm sure replacing the baby stay with forward lowers is the answer to tacking a normal headsail, the self tacker and big chute on roller reefing foils an extra - pretty near perfection for short handed cruising.
UncleAlbert
Well-Known Member
Hi TL my Centaurs' baby stay has the sheath of rotating tube and I have installed, at huge expense, some of those plastic wheel thingies which further aid the sheet attachment getting across the boat. Also to minimise the lump of stuff which can get caught I attach sheets (thimbled), to clew with a softy shackle made of dyneema.
Seajet
...
UncleAlbert,
you missed telling how well it works ?!
you missed telling how well it works ?!
Seajet
...
Heres the German boat:
I'll have a root around on my other PC for the American boat, apologies for the above picture quality, the original was a thumbnail.
I'm sure that will be of great interest, thanks.
Tam Lin
Well-Known Member
Seajet and Uncle Albert, thanks guys! I will have to try it out.
Lodds
Well-Known Member
Guys appreciate all your thoughts and suggestions.
I have just heard from my rigger and he said this "The baby stay is there to oppose the aft lowers if you remove it it will invert your mast which will bend the mast the wrong way. The only way around this is to have 2 fwd lower put in"
I'm now investigating this possibility.
I understand that I would loose lots of sail area but the pay off for me at least is worth it.
I have just heard from my rigger and he said this "The baby stay is there to oppose the aft lowers if you remove it it will invert your mast which will bend the mast the wrong way. The only way around this is to have 2 fwd lower put in"
I'm now investigating this possibility.
I understand that I would loose lots of sail area but the pay off for me at least is worth it.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
If you hank on you could always have a small self-tacking sail for inshore work and a bigger genoa for longer trips.
Seajet
...
Jumbleduck,
isn't that exactly what Lodds is proposing ?
Alright not hanked on which I and I think you prefer and does give a bit extra to windward.
Incidentally one of the many boats we looked over while discussing this was an original flush decked Frances 26; great sailor's boat but we thought unlikely to attract potential girlfriends for a second visit !
isn't that exactly what Lodds is proposing ?
Alright not hanked on which I and I think you prefer and does give a bit extra to windward.
Incidentally one of the many boats we looked over while discussing this was an original flush decked Frances 26; great sailor's boat but we thought unlikely to attract potential girlfriends for a second visit !
