Cats and Mooring

[Dave35]

Aussie dave here, for those of you that own a Cat /Multihull and have done some long term sailing ..have you ever had trouble finding a mooring...the beam can be relatively big on a cat and things can tend to be more expensive, if its difficult to find space in a marina wouldnt it be easy to just lay the cat up on a beach or some mud?

Im looking for a Cat 40 ft or so that is strong and I can use to cross oceans..any recommendations on make and model, some one said a Prestige 38 was good but they look to be relatively expensive ..any other cheaper models that people can recommend?

Cheers

David

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[bruce]

cats cost!, even small ones under 30' will be almost twice a single hull, and yes you will pay, at least over here for dock space, usually double normal as you will take up two spaces. good luck with whatever you decide.

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[DavidofMersea]

The reverse is my experience - you get more space per £ with catamaran - What about a 37 foot Prout Snowgoose? Although they are no longer with us, Prout has a good and long track record of building cats

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[Talbot]

My ultimate cat for long term cruising is definetly a Prout Snowgoose Elite. The Lagoon 38 is a very nice boat (especially the owner version rather than the charter) and the 41 and 44 are superb. The PDQ36 has a big following in USA. The prout is not the fastest, or the largest, but has a narrower beam (so easier to find moorings, and has a high reputation as a sea boat.

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[Dave35]

Yes I looked at the Lagoon 38...nice boat , could you cross an ocean in this? are the Lagoons built stongly or is the Prout Snowgoose a better proposal?

Cheers



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[extravert]

> wouldn't it be easy to just lay the cat up on a beach or some mud?

yes (as long as it is sheltered).

Swinging moorings are usually spaced apart widely enough so that you don't have a problem. A bridle and locked rudder will reduce yawing.

Anchoring on a multi-hull can be a lot more comfortable as they stay level. No rolling.

<hr width=100% size=1>Summer is what you expect - rain is what you get.

 

[Talbot]

I dont know how well built they are, but they are certainly very popular in the holiday market (all around the world). French tend to build lighter than UK, and thus their performance is better, but some of the UK boats are definitely overweight. I do know of a 12m catalac for sale in UK (V. unusual as most of these are in USA). I have a 9m catalac at the moment and have been slowly upgrading for a long cruise (to Perth), but am starting to think that a switch to a slightly bigger boat would be a better bet. My personal choice would be the Snowgoose Elite, but this decision for you really depends on funds and size of family.

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[Talbot]

Perhaps you could fill in a few more details on your bio, so that it is easier to provide advice?

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[snowleopard]

re berthing: almost all marinas will surcharge you 50% or 100% if you take up two berths between finger pontoons. common but much less justifiable is the tendency to apply a surcharge when lying alongside when you take up no more space than the equivalent monohull. a few ports, e.g. in spain and portugal charge all boats on length x beam.

on a swinging mooring a cat is no problem as it takes no more space but where moorings are packed close together in a tideway you may lie to the wind when everyone else swings to the tide, especially if you have lifting keels.

if considering regular grounding, especially where you haven't checked out the bottom first, it is essential to have keel shoes or a metal grounding plate.

for long term cruising there is no doubd that anchoring is the way to go, it's free almost everywhere and you can get into areas forbidden to keelboats.

among production cats i will stick my neck out and list a few makes by performance:

high performance
Dazcat
Outremer

cruising
faster...
Catana
Lagoon
Fontaine Pajot
Privilege
Apache/Comanche/Iroquois
Prout
Solaris
Wharram
Heavenly twins
Catalac
Bill OBrien (oceanic, bobcat)
...slower

at the top end of the cruising range you can expect 50% better passage times than the same length monohull, at the lower end, the same as a cruising mono.

no doubt i have now upset most of the multihull community!

there is also a whole world of one-offs out there, to get an idea, look at derek kelsall is now operating in your part of the world

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[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

I would have thought the Wharrams were higher up the list, they are the perfect cat, i.e. not bridge.Nor weight!

<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

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[snowleopard]

the wharram suffers from heavy construction relative to its size, high wetted surface because of the hull shape and usually fairly modest sail plans, all of which counter the benefits of the poen bridgedeck. jim never put much emphasis on performance.

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[Dave35]

Cheers Snow leopard ,I looked at the Prout Snowgoose elite...ok there slim , so Mooring is cheaper but when you look at some of the wider Lagoons or Catanas which are newer cheaper and faster the old Prouts look ..well ancient, what makes the difference between a Blue water Ocean cat like the prout and a Newer lagoon or Catana..I know which one the wife would have...

Anyonr heard of people sailing a Catana or Lagoon across the atlantic..

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[snowleopard]

re crossing the atlantic, when i crossed on the ARC in 2001, half the multihull fleet were catanas. we also met lots of lagoons in the caribbean and they didn't get there by road!

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[Birdseye]

I have had my Prout cat for almost 7 years now. In that time I have never (not even once) paid more than the normal rate for length for a short term mooring in a UK marina all along the South coast, up the East to Lowestoft, and in the West up to Bristol. Occasonally I have had to argue the point - my boat is no wider than many power boats - and I have no doubt that the result would have been different with a 20ft beam. But then if you actually occupy two berths you can hardly winge about paying for 2 berths.

I have occasionally paid length plus 50% in France, though there I treat it like a sport. If I get to the Capitainerie before the kid in the dory, and if they dont ask me how many hulls, then I dont tell them. By and large the student manning French marinas in summer couldnt care less anyway.

Spain was different. To my surprise, there was no flexibility for negotiation in Spain. It was length plus 50% even if you could fit into a single berth alongside another small boat. Infuriating.

For long term UK moorings it may well be different - my boat is normally in a yacht club where the mooring is free irrespective of beam or length. But then it is bordered by a sewage works, a coal tip, a steelworks and a power station! Its not scenic. Its just a good cheap well equipped base.

<hr width=100% size=1>this post is a personal opinion, and you should not base your actions on it.

 

[Dave35]

Birdseye,

Thanks for the insight , so what your implying is that even though you have a prout with less than 5 meter beam you still have to pay 1.5 times in Spain (the place were I will do most of my sailing and my boat will be based), so in effect you have made my choice that bit easier, i may as well get a Catana or a Lagoon with a 7 meter beam because the spanish charge you 1.5 times as much regardless of the beam..they just see two hulls and charge accordingly..

Thanks

Dave

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[Dominic]

Spanish Charges

Generally in Spain they do not charge by length. They charge by area.

So your charge will be length times beam times about 30 centimos.

Quite fair really, paying for the area you occupy.

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[Birdseye]

Sorry - I might have misled slightly. The distinction I was trying to make was between the (in my experience) complete flexibility of the Uk and the surprising inflexibility in Spain in relation to multihull surcharges.

In Spain as in France, there were different methods of charging. Some were based on area, some on length plus surcharge, some were banded. Only in the cases where there was a length plus 50% surcharge (and occasionally 100%) would you benefit from buying a wide cat. I wouldnt claim to have been in enough Spanish marinas to try and tell you how they split between the categories.

But why go so wide? Charges are one thing. Availability of a berth is another. I would not like to have a 20 ft or greater cat to find marina berths for. You will undoubtedly get turned away at times. Particularly in busy areas like UK south coast and at busy times ie July and August. Plus, the makers of serious cruising cats, as opposed to charter cats, mostly seem to go for 2:1 still. Plus dont underestimate the cost and effort in maintaining all that area of boat

<hr width=100% size=1>this post is a personal opinion, and you should not base your actions on it.

 

[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

Falmouth 1.5x no negotiation
Milford 1.5x no negotiation

I never let on about being a cat, when approaching and calling the marina I am 26ft. But they come looking, at Milford she caught me in the lock telling me off for not declaring I was a catamaran. Gave me a crappy berth too.

Falmouth, well they are just Falmouth!

Many marinas don't surcharge me, but I try to avoid them anyhow. I have heard though and should experience it quite soon that stern to moorings in the med always surcharge. Many are to narrow for multi's as they have poles to tie to rather than you deploying an anchor.

Though I am sure I will find out in time, I can only go on what I am reading so far.

<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

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[Superstrath]

Clyde Marina gave us a very wide berth for the year and a substantial discount on the list price for our length. Very nice of them, don't you think? According to a letter in YM , a 10.5m boat in Port Hamble gets charged £6,018. Would it REALLY cost me about 10 grand to kep my cat there? Mad.

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[snowleopard]

why go so wide?

the width of a cat directly relates to its stability, otherwise we'd still be sailing the narrow cats we had in the early days which were prone to tip over. today 1:2 is about the minimum beam:length



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