geem
Well-Known Member
Sat in an anchorage with many boats around us with large hull windows bonded in got me thinking.
Following the report of the loss of the Bavaria 47 ocean that was lost, off New Zealand, due to the failure of its pilot house windows, makes me think this Cat A ISO standard needs a complete rethink.
Friends have a Jeanneau 45 DS. Their boats has done very little sailing. No ocean sailing and it's never been out in bad weather. It is Caribbean based where UV degradation is a factor. Their windows fell out at 12 years old. They are simple glued in. No mechanical fixing at all. They haven't been subjected to a flexing hull. Simple bond failure of the adhesive.
It now seems normal for modern boats to have large hull windows that are only bonded in. Is failure just a matter of time?
Lots of these cat A boats get called bluewater boats. There is no official definition of bluewater but to me it means ocean capable such that it can survive bad weather.
Are people buying these cat A boats assuming that they can survive bad weather?
Adhesive failure at 8/12 years old seems quite possible in a lightly built modern hull where flexing in rough weather would be likely. This makes the theoretical ISO standard that they met when the boat was new a joke. As they age, the risk of window loss increases.
The adhesive bond of the windows tested to the same ISO standard 10 years down the line, would probably fail any test on the sheer strength of the adhesive. At what point do you replace them? When they fall out or at a certain age? How do you get the old windows out? Do you fit new ones? Is there any advice from the manufacturer about periodic replacement and do they have new windows available and fitting instructions?
Maybe we need a new standard A+
Boats built to a robust standard. Optimised for extreme conditions.
This standard would need to ensure the hull had damage tolerance. Age resilience. Hull windows would have to be small, recessed, capable of accepting storn covers, so far more robust than current cat A.
In addition, all windows should be mechanically fixed and small.
There are lots of other aspects that could be in any A+ standard such as keel to hull fixing, redundancy of systems, rudder bearings design, rudder strength, etc
There are many boats that sell themselves as high latitude boats where an A+ standard would be a good fit and give them a standard to work to.
In the meantime, bonded in hull windows are on boats reaching the point of adhesive failure due to age.
If we had an A+ standard, what would happen to the cat A ocean standard? Who would sail such a boat West to East across the Atlantic and could you get insurance for bad weather?
Not trying to be controversial, just thought provoking.
Happy New Year
Following the report of the loss of the Bavaria 47 ocean that was lost, off New Zealand, due to the failure of its pilot house windows, makes me think this Cat A ISO standard needs a complete rethink.
Friends have a Jeanneau 45 DS. Their boats has done very little sailing. No ocean sailing and it's never been out in bad weather. It is Caribbean based where UV degradation is a factor. Their windows fell out at 12 years old. They are simple glued in. No mechanical fixing at all. They haven't been subjected to a flexing hull. Simple bond failure of the adhesive.
It now seems normal for modern boats to have large hull windows that are only bonded in. Is failure just a matter of time?
Lots of these cat A boats get called bluewater boats. There is no official definition of bluewater but to me it means ocean capable such that it can survive bad weather.
Are people buying these cat A boats assuming that they can survive bad weather?
Adhesive failure at 8/12 years old seems quite possible in a lightly built modern hull where flexing in rough weather would be likely. This makes the theoretical ISO standard that they met when the boat was new a joke. As they age, the risk of window loss increases.
The adhesive bond of the windows tested to the same ISO standard 10 years down the line, would probably fail any test on the sheer strength of the adhesive. At what point do you replace them? When they fall out or at a certain age? How do you get the old windows out? Do you fit new ones? Is there any advice from the manufacturer about periodic replacement and do they have new windows available and fitting instructions?
Maybe we need a new standard A+
Boats built to a robust standard. Optimised for extreme conditions.
This standard would need to ensure the hull had damage tolerance. Age resilience. Hull windows would have to be small, recessed, capable of accepting storn covers, so far more robust than current cat A.
In addition, all windows should be mechanically fixed and small.
There are lots of other aspects that could be in any A+ standard such as keel to hull fixing, redundancy of systems, rudder bearings design, rudder strength, etc
There are many boats that sell themselves as high latitude boats where an A+ standard would be a good fit and give them a standard to work to.
In the meantime, bonded in hull windows are on boats reaching the point of adhesive failure due to age.
If we had an A+ standard, what would happen to the cat A ocean standard? Who would sail such a boat West to East across the Atlantic and could you get insurance for bad weather?
Not trying to be controversial, just thought provoking.
Happy New Year
