snowleopard
Active member
this morning we hear that a commander RN has been sent home for 'bullying' his junior officers. how times change, no cries of 'damn your eyes mr. christian' today.
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captain sent home...
- Thread starter snowleopard
- Start date
pragmatist
Well-known member
Undoubtedly this one will be punished - the one who hit a bit of Australia and cost the taxpayer millions didn't. Reasonable ? (discuss)
<hr width=100% size=1>a pragmatist is a sailor who now believes it will _always_ rain
<hr width=100% size=1>a pragmatist is a sailor who now believes it will _always_ rain
Talbot
Active member
This man has been hung drawn and quartered by the media already before the evidence has been considered.
I believe that he has been ordered to UK in order for a Court of Enquiry to establish the facts, but we all know that the media will not allow facts to get in the way of a good story. However, if you listen to the way it is phrased on the TV/radio, they are very carefull to imply, but not state that it is the Commanding Officer who has been a naughty boy. I bet the lawyers are working overtime on this one to make sure that they dont leave themselves open to a libel suit.
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I believe that he has been ordered to UK in order for a Court of Enquiry to establish the facts, but we all know that the media will not allow facts to get in the way of a good story. However, if you listen to the way it is phrased on the TV/radio, they are very carefull to imply, but not state that it is the Commanding Officer who has been a naughty boy. I bet the lawyers are working overtime on this one to make sure that they dont leave themselves open to a libel suit.
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Wiggo
New member
It must be true - I read about it in The Sun.
<hr width=100% size=1>Hung like Einstein, and smart as a horse.
<hr width=100% size=1>Hung like Einstein, and smart as a horse.
I
Iota
Guest
Same as QHM someone talks to the press, you have to wonder who and their motive, a mans reputation is scarred regardless of the facts. Like QHM responsible journalism should hold the story and let the enquiry get on with their work and see if there is anything to report.
Iota
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Iota
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Robin
Well-known member
Local TV is careful to say also that there is no racial or equality or physical bullying issue here either. So what could he have done - shouted at him perhaps?
<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>
<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>
BigART
Member
"the one who hit a bit of Australia and cost the taxpayer millions didn't. Reasonable ? (discuss) "
Worth going back over the story on this one. He was a good man doing the decent thing under circumstances forced on him.
<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.DoItCruise.info>http://www.DoItCruise.info</A>
Worth going back over the story on this one. He was a good man doing the decent thing under circumstances forced on him.
<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.DoItCruise.info>http://www.DoItCruise.info</A>
DJE
Well-known member
On a similar point, did the media ever follow up the story about the diesel sub which we sold to Canada and which caught fire on its way across the Atlantic? I hear from the ex-navy types at our club that is was all the Canadian crew's fault but they would say that wouldn't they.
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dralex
New member
I'm not condoning bullying and have no experience of the services, but I thought the whole idea in the forces was to condition and instill discipline in recruits so that when the Sh** hits the fan, the training takes over and the job gets done. It seems to me that young people's sensibilities are getting a bit sensitive- they all joined voluntarily, but having done medicals on them, it seems they are going in eyes closed.
There is no excuse for institutional bullying, but the forces do need firm rules and the ability to instill values and discipline- sometimes this may offend people.
What's changed?- the expectations of "rights"
All IMHO and I fully expect to get shot down in flames for this.
<hr width=100% size=1>Just enjoy it.
There is no excuse for institutional bullying, but the forces do need firm rules and the ability to instill values and discipline- sometimes this may offend people.
What's changed?- the expectations of "rights"
All IMHO and I fully expect to get shot down in flames for this.
<hr width=100% size=1>Just enjoy it.
pragmatist
Well-known member
Plainly I missed something - and I don't read The Sun /forums/images/icons/smile.gif. I understood the cause was navigational error. Is that not the case ? (And yes I do understand that he may not have been on board at the time but IMHO the Navy should know how to navigate and the skipper of any boat is ultimately responsible.)
<hr width=100% size=1>a pragmatist is a sailor who now believes it will _always_ rain
<hr width=100% size=1>a pragmatist is a sailor who now believes it will _always_ rain
Talbot
Active member
<blockquote><font size=1>Quote from previous post:</font><hr>
responsible journalism
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thats a real oxymoron.
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responsible journalism
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thats a real oxymoron.
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claymore
Well-known member
Post traumatic stress
Like bullying
Load of Balls
What happened to Backbone and High Moral Fibre
Harrummphh
(Wanders off twiddling handlebar moustache)
<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple>regards
Claymore<font color=purple>
/forums/images/icons/smile.gif
http://www.whoi.edu/services/facilities/CLAYMORE/
Like bullying
Load of Balls
What happened to Backbone and High Moral Fibre
Harrummphh
(Wanders off twiddling handlebar moustache)
<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple>regards
Claymore<font color=purple>
/forums/images/icons/smile.gif
http://www.whoi.edu/services/facilities/CLAYMORE/
ashanta
New member
I agree with you that expectations have changed and the youth of today are not the same as we were (I have 21 & 18 year olds) The recent Army series on the reinactment of conscripts during training made people shudder yet the training they had was no easier or harder than when I trained as a soldier in 1970. In fact it was exactly the same. However, now the the recruits have a duvet instead of bed blocks, furniture instead of a locker and metal bed, no bumpering of the barrack block floor, the drill pigs can't shout at them anymore and just for good measure they are given a whistleblower telephone number when they feel unhappy with someone.
There were over 300K soldiers in the British army in the 70's now there is less tha 100K. Recruitment is easier now and they are selecting people who do not have the mentality to be soldiers due to their lack of preparedness and lack of hunger.
If I had let people have their way I too would have been bullied but I didn't, I fought them and was punished for it (many times 7 14 28 days in jail) before finally being promoted. The Forces are great with the right people in them but useless with the wrong people.
Regards.
peter.
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There were over 300K soldiers in the British army in the 70's now there is less tha 100K. Recruitment is easier now and they are selecting people who do not have the mentality to be soldiers due to their lack of preparedness and lack of hunger.
If I had let people have their way I too would have been bullied but I didn't, I fought them and was punished for it (many times 7 14 28 days in jail) before finally being promoted. The Forces are great with the right people in them but useless with the wrong people.
Regards.
peter.
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ccscott49
Active member
With the new standards, they would have hung my old drill seargents! It's all going down the gurgler!
I still believe younsters of today have got the guts to get things done, it's just they dont get the chance/oppurtunities. They are told what to expect, there rights?? and what to complain about, so they do, loudly! They are mollycoddled, whether they want it or not, it's rammed down there throats, by the media and lacklustre parents.
You cant really blame them. It's us you should be blaming, we are the ones who let it all happen. We could have stopped the rot, but we were too busy lining our own pockets and too damn lazy.
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I still believe younsters of today have got the guts to get things done, it's just they dont get the chance/oppurtunities. They are told what to expect, there rights?? and what to complain about, so they do, loudly! They are mollycoddled, whether they want it or not, it's rammed down there throats, by the media and lacklustre parents.
You cant really blame them. It's us you should be blaming, we are the ones who let it all happen. We could have stopped the rot, but we were too busy lining our own pockets and too damn lazy.
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fireball
New member
Define bullying? how far removed from discipline is it?
Pampering to the staff is not going to help come crisis situation is it?!
I thought the whole aim of training and continual "bullying" was to get the staff to do what they were told when they were told - without question.
If I said to my helm to "head up" whilst sailing I would expect it to be done without question - I may have spotted something we were going to hit whilst they haven't. A delay in reaction may cause damage or threaten the boat - likewise I would head up without question - until later to find out what was missed. To get this sort of reaction there has to be trust, respect and co-operation - same as in the forces. How do you go about getting this trust, respect and co-operation?
Do first - ask questions later - stay afloat.
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Pampering to the staff is not going to help come crisis situation is it?!
I thought the whole aim of training and continual "bullying" was to get the staff to do what they were told when they were told - without question.
If I said to my helm to "head up" whilst sailing I would expect it to be done without question - I may have spotted something we were going to hit whilst they haven't. A delay in reaction may cause damage or threaten the boat - likewise I would head up without question - until later to find out what was missed. To get this sort of reaction there has to be trust, respect and co-operation - same as in the forces. How do you go about getting this trust, respect and co-operation?
Do first - ask questions later - stay afloat.
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BigART
Member
I don't think you missed much. As you say, he was not on board as the destroyer was set up for the incident by the on watch officers who were having a joint 'senior moment'. It all happened shortly after he arrived back on board by Lynx. However, being a gentlemen he took full reponsibility and did a good job keeping the ship/crew going until it could be stabilised.
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<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.DoItCruise.info>http://www.DoItCruise.info</A>
dulcibella
Active member
How about waiting until we actually know what happened instead of stirring the pot with speculation and statements of our personal political prejudices?
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BIG_PLANS
New member
Surely the grounding of a ship, is just a mistake. We all make mistakes at work, home and on the boat. Ships go aground regularly, seem to think the QM2 touched the bottom leaving France, Life's a bitch we all make mistakes, surely the problem isnt the first time they do it, its when they have done it more than once. The other thing, you can bet your bottom dollar if it had been a commercial ship it would have cost half as much to repair.
<hr width=100% size=1>Am I the only Broom owner who isnt retired?
<hr width=100% size=1>Am I the only Broom owner who isnt retired?
Talbot
Active member
<blockquote><font size=1>Quote from previous post:</font><hr>
you can bet your bottom dollar if it had been a commercial ship it would have cost half as much to repair.
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I dont know of many commercial ships that have multi-million pound sonar systems and weapons equipment fitted, all of which were badly damaged by the flooding. Hull costs are a very very minor part of the cost of a modern warship.
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you can bet your bottom dollar if it had been a commercial ship it would have cost half as much to repair.
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I dont know of many commercial ships that have multi-million pound sonar systems and weapons equipment fitted, all of which were badly damaged by the flooding. Hull costs are a very very minor part of the cost of a modern warship.
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bedouin
Well-known member
I think had it been a commercial ship it wouldn't have survived to be repaired. IIRC with all the training, crew and equipment on the warship they still struggled to stop it sinking - no way a less strongly built commercial ship would have survived
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