Can we long term cruise in Portugal?

[Dunx]

We would like to travel this year from the Uk, via France and Spain to winter in Portugal. We would like to live aboard but are going round in circles trying to find out what visas you can get to facilitate this. We have tried the official websites but they seem to be endless loops without giving any answers. The main question is can we get a 6month visa for winter in Portugal?
We are both retired. Has anyone managed to do this and if so how?
Thanks

 

[webcraft]

We would like to travel this year from the Uk, via France and Spain to winter in Portugal. We would like to live aboard but are going round in circles trying to find out what visas you can get to facilitate this. We have tried the official websites but they seem to be endless loops without giving any answers. The main question is can we get a 6month visa for winter in Portugal?
We are both retired. Has anyone managed to do this and if so how?
Thanks

There is no 6 month visitors visa for Portugal at the moment, you are limited to doing the Schengen Shuffle 90/180 unless you have residency.

3 months in Portugal and 3 months in Morocco might be worth looking into, there is a new marina in Tangiers.

- W

 

[sfellows]

You can apply for a longer stay Visa in Portugal, but you will have to have proof of a a minimum income to qualify.

Type of Visa

 

[Dunx]

You can apply for a longer stay Visa in Portugal, but you will have to have proof of a a minimum income to qualify.

Type of Visa

Thanks. I had found that but its almost impenetrable trying to find out what the exceptional and duly justified cases are. Have you applied for one yourself and been successful?

 

[Tranona]

Thanks. I had found that but its almost impenetrable trying to find out what the exceptional and duly justified cases are. Have you applied for one yourself and been successful?

Pretty sure that living on your boat as a visitor would not qualify. If they wanted to give visas for this purpose they would say so. Tourists are governed by Schengen rules.

 

[Graham376]

Thanks. I had found that but its almost impenetrable trying to find out what the exceptional and duly justified cases are. Have you applied for one yourself and been successful?

Unfortunately, what you propose is unlikely to succeed. An extension to a 90 day visa (which Brits don't need anyway) has to be made to SEF who are overworked and it can take months to obtain an appointment, by which time you will have overstayed and the application will be denied, even if you meet the criteria. Here are the reasons for requesting extended visa, tourism is not one -

1. for force majeure reasons (for example, a last-minute flight change by an airline due to bad weather conditions);
2. for significant personal reasons (for example, an unforeseen extension of your business trip);
3. residence of your family in Portugal and evidence that you are relatives;
4. for humanitarian reasons (for example, due to a sudden illness of you or a close family member, in which case you must present a medical certificate with a diagnosis and current state of health).

 

[Dunx]

Thanks Graham376. It sounds like Europe is closed to all sailors from 3rd countries who want to stay more than 90 days. I am wondering how others such as motor homers and caravaners are fairing. I presume the door is closed to us all after 90 days…

 

[Graham376]

Thanks Graham376. It sounds like Europe is closed to all sailors from 3rd countries who want to stay more than 90 days. I am wondering how others such as motor homers and caravaners are fairing. I presume the door is closed to us all after 90 days…

Yes, as things stand now and if you stick to the rules, 90 days it is. The new inter-Europe databases coming on line this year will make it even harder to duck and dive as time spend anywhere in Schengen will be tracked and recorded. Having said that, once in EU, there are no cross border checks for boats between France, Spain and Portugal but marinas do report visitors to authorities.

Hypothetically, if someone declares they're leaving say France for a destination outside the EU such as Morocco, they can obtain an exit stamp to stop the 90 day clock. It's then quite possible to sail onwards, anchoring rather than marina dwelling and no-one knows they're there unless unlucky enough to be boarded for inspection, which could start the clock again.

 

[Tranona]

Thanks Graham376. It sounds like Europe is closed to all sailors from 3rd countries who want to stay more than 90 days. I am wondering how others such as motor homers and caravaners are fairing. I presume the door is closed to us all after 90 days…

Not quite. There are some countries that have long standing bespoke agreements with the EU for longer tourist visas such as New Zealand. However common knowledge that when the UK started negotiating the EU (Merkel and Macron) made it very clear that there would be no special deal on movement in Schengen for the UK. Unsurprising as the UK had a long resistance to being part of Schengen. This is of course against a backdrop of massive migration movements and inadequate border controls for the whole of Europe so unlikely to be any change in the near future.

 

[Sandy]

Thanks Graham376. It sounds like Europe is closed to all sailors from 3rd countries who want to stay more than 90 days. I am wondering how others such as motor homers and caravaners are fairing. I presume the door is closed to us all after 90 days…

Actually it is not, but you need to spend time working out where to stay and how to move about the Schengen area. I have friends who have a long term visa in France that does not count to their 90/180 days. They happily move about Spain, Portugal and Italy, using their 90/180 days, and the North African countries. Others do the Schengen <--> Turkey shuffle every 90 days and that works for them.

I was unable to check out of A Coruna last summer and in order to 'stop the clock' returned to Roscoff on the ferry. After much discussion with the douanes I was stamped in and out of France. I know of somebody who did not check out of Schengen and re entered in the Netherlands. He was given an on the spot €500 fine.

 

[syvictoria]

... He was given an on the spot €500 fine.

Ouch! Presumably that would have been €1000 had it been a couple!

We weren't stamped out at Calais on our last visit due to a vacant booth and open barrier. We eventually found a customs officer at the terminal and reported the issue. After some internal discussions, they bundled us into one of their vehicles, took us back over the border to another office, stamped our passports and then returned us to the ferry queue! Everyone was very pleasant and friendly, but they clearly felt it important to rectify the issue for us and they were quite perplexed as to why the border control had been temporarily left unmanned when we (and others) had passed through. It was all quite exciting! However it was lucky that we had lots of time in hand due to a cancelled ferry!

 

[st599]

Heathrow is the worst for unmanned Customs posts. You can easily waste 6 hours of your life waiting for someone to turn up and stamp a Carnet.

 

[Sandy]

Ouch! Presumably that would have been €1000 had it been a couple!

We weren't stamped out at Calais on our last visit due to a vacant booth and open barrier. We eventually found a customs officer at the terminal and reported the issue. After some internal discussions, they bundled us into one of their vehicles, took us back over the border to another office, stamped our passports and then returned us to the ferry queue! Everyone was very pleasant and friendly, but they clearly felt it important to rectify the issue for us and they were quite perplexed as to why the border control had been temporarily left unmanned when we (and others) had passed through. It was all quite exciting! However it was lucky that we had lots of time in hand due to a cancelled ferry!

The fine was to the individual not the group.

I also have a friend who during COVID had a UK fine of £500 as they did not report correctly returning to the UK from the Azores. So it is not just the EU who impose fines.

 

[Dunx]

Thanks everyone for the help so far. It looks like trying to get a longer visa in France may have some legs...

 

[Daverw]

The Cruising Association has a seminar this weekend on visa for France etc

 

[[3889]]

Not quite. There are some countries that have long standing bespoke agreements with the EU for longer tourist visas such as New Zealand. However common knowledge that when the UK started negotiating the EU (Merkel and Macron) made it very clear that there would be no special deal on movement in Schengen for the UK. Unsurprising as the UK had a long resistance to being part of Schengen. This is of course against a backdrop of massive migration movements and inadequate border controls for the whole of Europe so unlikely to be any change in the near future.

My understanding is the EU offered a 180/360 deal to the UK which was declined. EU citizens can stay for 6 contiguous months in the UK so hard to see why a recoprocal agreement wasn't possible. It's almost as if the UK negotiators wished to create friction.

 

[Tranona]

My understanding is the EU offered a 180/360 deal to the UK which was declined. EU citizens can stay for 6 contiguous months in the UK so hard to see why a recoprocal agreement wasn't possible. It's almost as if the UK negotiators wished to create friction.

The UK government did not want to give carte blanche but restrict to visitors only. Remember that the movement was almost all one way - tourists to Europe, workers to UK. It was this imbalance that was much of the reason for leaving the EU, but of course the rationale got lost in all the emotive "debate". You can see from the reduction in EU "visits" to the UK that granting longer periods of visitor stays has had little effect. Expect now the tourist industry is up and running again doubt the number of UK visitors to the EU will have fallen. Vast majority have no problems with 90 days, except for the current hassle with paperwork.

 

[Bathdave]

My understanding is the EU offered a 180/360 deal to the UK which was declined. EU citizens can stay for 6 contiguous months in the UK so hard to see why a recoprocal agreement wasn't possible. It's almost as if the UK negotiators wished to create friction.

I don't believe you are correct ..indeed I understand it was the exact opposite

the U.K. wanted reciprocity with its offer of 180 in 360 but the EU was in ‘you want to leave, you will be treated like any other 3rd country’ mode ....no special U.K. only deals

 

[st599]

I don't believe you are correct ..indeed I understand it was the exact opposite

the U.K. wanted reciprocity with its offer of 180 in 360 but the EU was in ‘you want to leave, you will be treated like any other 3rd country’ mode ....no special U.K. only deals

That's not what the RYA said on their Brexit webinar. They said an EU offer was made if the UK would reciprocate, the UK declined.

 

[awol]

I find it ironic that the hordes of European immigrants that have been forced into Settled Status or UK Nationality mostly do not have this restriction and the offspring (even unto the 2nd generation) of these immigrants can also be immune. Thanks to my Irish granny I am now free to roam Europe again, incidentally at considerably less cost than it took my French wife to become a citizen of the UK.