Can anybody identify this noise?

[BruceK]

My battery is a 50AH marine deep cycle battery with CCA of 400A

Checked online and minimum cranking amps for my motor is 350CCA. So i seem to be JUST in spec...

That and the wiring. A deep cycle battery should not be used for starting either. You will damage it. That battery is too small a capacity if you ever have trouble starting. That is all beside the possible issues elsewhere. Strip the motor down and check everything. Simple things, if there is a fault you will see it

 

[MystyBlue2]

That and the wiring. A deep cycle battery should not be used for starting either. You will damage it. That battery is too small a capacity if you ever have trouble starting. That is all beside the possible issues elsewhere. Strip the motor down and check everything. Simple things, if there is a fault you will see it

Brilliant so what size battery would you recommend for cranking and running electrical components?

Like mentioned above i am brimming on max weight already so the big boy setup of a cranking battery and a separate aux battery linked up to a isolator switch is too much combined weight.

Ideally i need a 1 size fits all sort of arrangement...if that even exists haha

 

[Caraway]

Yeah il post a pic from crowley marine with a parts diagram.

Ah, No. That solenoid is just to transmit the current to the starter safely.
It is not a pre-engaged starter solenoid which has a fork to move the pinion onto the starter ring before spinning it.
It is an inertia starter. Perhaps the bendix thread has hardened grease on it which is stopping the pinion sliding back down.

 

[MystyBlue2]

Ah, No. That solenoid is just to transmit the current to the starter safely.
It is not a pre-engaged starter solenoid which has a fork to move the pinion onto the starter ring before spinning it.
It is an inertia starter. Perhaps the bendix thread has hardened grease on it which is stopping the pinion sliding back down.

Ah right ok thank you for clearing that up for me...every day is a school day!

So basically i need to completely tear down the starter itself, clean and rebuild...hmmm not confident haha

 

[Caraway]

Just a small tin of petrol and an old 1/2" paint brush. Clean up the pinion shaft and the inside of the pinion. Then put a little light oil on it. The pinion should slide up to the end and return when you let go.
Yeah. I know. Using petrol to clean off grease. Disgusting!

 

[MystyBlue2]

Just a small tin of petrol and an old 1/2" paint brush. Clean up the pinion shaft and the inside of the pinion. Then put a little light oil on it. The pinion should slide up to the end and return when you let go.
Yeah. I know. Using petrol to clean off grease. Disgusting!

Smells nice though don't it! Haha brilliant thanks mate ? ?

 

[Assassin]

Dont put oil on the pinoin shaft; rub a pencil lead around it and try it a few times.

 

[DavidJ]

Can you not start the engine then take the starter off while running , carefully if the noise goes away its the starter.

DO NOT DO THIS
A pre engage starter pushes the gear into the flywheel. With an inertia starter the gear is pulled in ( by inertia) to the other side of the flywheel. So if taking the starter motor off while the engine is running you would be dragging the bendix over the flywheel.

Cleaning the bendix as suggested is an easy task, it‘s not a strip down job. You can give it a few drops of oil. Oiling is not recommended for car applications because the motor is near the clutch and clutch dust and oil causes clogging.

Inertia starters for cars were phased out in the 1970’s so most applications would have been manual gearboxes with clutches

 

[MystyBlue2]

Right ok so....what im going to try is,

Firsty im going to try my BIGGER car battery to start to see if more current stops it staying engaged.

If not then remove the starter clean and inspect the bendix and pinion gear for crud and damage, clean the + and - terminals, smear a tiny bit of ramonol on the teeth of pinion gear/ flywheel teeth and refit and retry.

If that still dont make any differance it either looks like a full strip down or a complete new starter...oh dear keep your fingers crossed for me folks. Il keep you all posted. Thanks for all your comments

 

[DavidJ]

Right ok so....what im going to try is,

Firsty im going to try my BIGGER car battery to start to see if more current stops it staying engaged.

Skip this one. Your motor was cranking over ok. If by some chance it did work, it would not be solving the route problem and it would lead you to buying a heavier battery which, as explained, you really don't need.

 

[MystyBlue2]

Skip this one. Your motor was cranking over ok. If by some chance it did work, it would not be solving the route problem and it would lead you to buying a heavier battery which, as explained, you really don't need.

Good point...I'll start by removing, Cleaning and inspection first then

 

[BruceK]

Skip this one. Your motor was cranking over ok. If by some chance it did work, it would not be solving the route problem and it would lead you to buying a heavier battery which, as explained, you really don't need.

Disagree. I dont think the battery he was using is suited to the task being a 50A.hr deep cycle leisure battery. Even at sea a few hard starts would deplete and damage it. The battery can only just deliver enough CCA to start the motor from new / optimal condition and the question is for how long? In saying that it is by no means assured that it is a battery problem but it should be replaced.

 

[Caraway]

It is not a battery issue. The engine starts so there is enough kick to get the pinion engaged, even with a crudded-up bendix.
The first, easiest and cheapest option is whip the starter off and clean the bendix/pinion.

It should then work.

It happens more often on inertia starters on cars because you have an oily environment (leaky crank oil seal) and dust (clutch) but on a boat engine there are long periods of non-use, salt air and possible over-eager lubrication (or worse grease).

 

[MystyBlue2]

Disagree. I dont think the battery he was using is suited to the task being a 50A.hr deep cycle leisure battery. Even at sea a few hard starts would deplete and damage it. The battery can only just deliver enough CCA to start the motor from new / optimal condition and the question is for how long? In saying that it is by no means assured that it is a battery problem but it should be replaced.

What type and AH battery would you recommend for this motor as a starter but to power my electrical components too.

I haven't got room or weight capacity for a dual battery system on a isolator switch. So i need a one that does it all.

 

[Rappey]

I have a 50 hp 4 stroke and a 40ah battery. It's more than adequate.
Same size battery that a suzuki jimny 4x4 has !
It's a small engine , how much power do some of you think a small engine uses to crank ? Not a lot.
It doesn't sound like the pinion is jamming on the flywheel as that's a different noise, and not a nice one and the sound occurs after the starter has finished turning the engine.
It sounds like after the pinion has disengaged and pinion is still spinning as it goes back down its shaft, that's where your noise is coming from. Maybe very worn and rattling on way back down or shaft is a little sticky or greasy.
Give it a good clean as it's often only 2 bolts and easy to remove.

 

[BruceK]

What type and AH battery would you recommend for this motor as a starter but to power my electrical components too.

I haven't got room or weight capacity for a dual battery system on a isolator switch. So i need a one that does it all.

Seems the weight of opinion on using a marginal deep cycle leisure battery for starting is against me. C'est la vie. If it's working for you then why not.

 

[Caraway]

I have a 50 hp 4 stroke and a 40ah battery. It's more than adequate.
Same size battery that a suzuki jimny 4x4 has !
It's a small engine , how much power do some of you think a small engine uses to crank ? Not a lot.
It doesn't sound like the pinion is jamming on the flywheel as that's a different noise, and not a nice one and the sound occurs after the starter has finished turning the engine.
It sounds like after the pinion has disengaged and pinion is still spinning as it goes back down its shaft, that's where your noise is coming from. Maybe very worn and rattling on way back down or shaft is a little sticky or greasy.
Give it a good clean as it's often only 2 bolts and easy to remove.

The noise occurs when the engine stops. So the pinion must have been stuck on the starter ring ..... Whichever, cleaning the motor is the obvious first step.

 

[Rappey]

So the pinion must have been stuck on the starter ring

Totally disagree as it's a completely different noise when pinion is stuck in flywheel.
The op,s noise occurs as the engine has stopped rotating and a slight duration afterwards.
Engine needs to be turning for stuck pinion in flywheel noise. This noise occurs when the pinion would be dropping back down its shaft to its resting position.

 

[spannerman]

Its the pinion over running. When the engine starts it accelerates to a faster speed than the starter rotates spinning the pinion out of mesh. Lube the bendix and if it persists lube the bearing at each end of the starter shaft.

 

[MystyBlue2]

Thanks for all your comments folks i will remove the starter, Clean and keep you all posted!