Can anybody identify this noise?

[MystyBlue2]

Please ignore how rough the motor is running, That problem has been fixed and running beautifully apart from this noise.

When i try and start the motor i get a whine and grinding noise, the motor will start but I'm a little concerned as to if it could land me up the creek when 6 miles from land. And with no back up pull start it will be a call to the local lifeboat for a tow.

Is this noise of any concern and any ideas on what it could be?

Cheers folks ?

 

[jon and michie]

The whine sounds like its coming from the starter

 

[MystyBlue2]

The whine sounds like its coming from the starter

Yeah thats what i was fearing...is this a tell tale sign to get a new one before it packs in or is this just a common noise with age etc...

 

[Caraway]

Sounds like the pinion is jamming on the flywheel and not disengaging until the motor dies.
Take the starter off and inspect the pnion (the cogged bit on the end). It can be caused by a loose starter or a damaged pinion, or starter ring on the flwheel,

 

[jon and michie]

A starter works by the solenoid which works by engaging the motor.
The Motor only rotates
The solenoid brings the gear attached forward to the flywheel.
So it maybe the motor running on a little longer.
This happens in car engines quite often but the motorist fails to hear it.

The £1m question is - how easy is it to change it if you had a spare whilst in the water??

 

[Seastoke]

Please ignore how rough the motor is running, That problem has been fixed and running beautifully apart from this noise.

When i try and start the motor i get a whine and grinding noise, the motor will start but I'm a little concerned as to if it could land me up the creek when 6 miles from land. And with no back up pull start it will be a call to the local lifeboat for a tow.

Is this noise of any concern and any ideas on what it could be?

Cheers folks ?

If you understand the need for a back up motor why do you not have one, you could be 50 metres off rocks not 6 miles off shore , i dont get you.

 

[MystyBlue2]

Sounds like the pinion is jamming on the flywheel and not disengaging until the motor dies.
Take the starter off and inspect the pnion (the cogged bit on the end). It can be caused by a loose starter or a damaged pinion, or starter ring on the flwheel,

Ive checked the flywheel teeth and none are missing, bent or broken, i can easily rotate the flywheel by hand so i can sort of eliminate the possibility of seized internals, I've checked the starter itself to see if if the mounting bolts are loose and there not...I'm starting to think the starter is knackered internally and its only a matter of time before it gives in completely

 

[MystyBlue2]

If you understand the need for a back up motor why do you not have one, you could be 50 metres off rocks not 6 miles off shore , i dont get you.

Because my boat is tiny! I'm brimming on the MAX weight as it is with 2 blokes, Battery, Anchor, Fuel, Small tool kit, electronics, tackle and a 40hp motor. Not even space for a flask or sandwiches!

An aux will add more unnecessary weight and more to go wrong, Ontop of that i feel it will upset the balance of the boat too much and cause more problems than it will solve.

Not bad on a 17ft wilson or a warrior but a 14ft fully loaded seahog trio i think it will just be a little too much to handle.

 

[Caraway]

A starter works by the solenoid which works by engaging the motor.
The Motor only rotates
The solenoid brings the gear attached forward to the flywheel.
So it maybe the motor running on a little longer.
This happens in car engines quite often but the motorist fails to hear it.

The £1m question is - how easy is it to change it if you had a spare whilst in the water??

Are you sure about the solenoid? It looks like only motors over 115hp have solneoids. The smaller ones seem to use inertia starters.

 

[Caraway]

Ive checked the flywheel teeth and none are missing, bent or broken, i can easily rotate the flywheel by hand so i can sort of eliminate the possibility of seized internals, I've checked the starter itself to see if if the mounting bolts are loose and there not...I'm starting to think the starter is knackered internally and its only a matter of time before it gives in completely

Can you borrow a starter from a mate? See if anyone else's show the same problem.

 

[Seastoke]

Can you not start the engine then take the starter off while running , carefully if the noise goes away its the starter.

 

[MystyBlue2]

A starter works by the solenoid which works by engaging the motor.
The Motor only rotates
The solenoid brings the gear attached forward to the flywheel.
So it maybe the motor running on a little longer.
This happens in car engines quite often but the motorist fails to hear it.

The £1m question is - how easy is it to change it if you had a spare whilst in the water??

So do you mean the cog on the end that jumps up and engaging the flywheel is staying temporarily engaged and the momentum of the flywheel rotating once engine is running is causing the starter to stay engaged for too long causing the whine?

 

[MystyBlue2]

Can you not start the engine then take the starter off while running , carefully if the noise goes away its the starter.

So completely remove the starter when engine is running?

Yeah i could do that but...would i need to do anything with the solenoid as the wires would still be live wouldn't they?

Also with the solenoid and starter removed could this not cause the motor to stall at all?

 

[MystyBlue2]

Can you borrow a starter from a mate? See if anyone else's show the same problem.

I only have one mate that is into boating and the chance of him having a starter that would fit would be a pure stroke of luck.

I dont want to jump to conclusions as the starter is still sort of doing its job...what would you lot do...replace now or wait until it gives in?

 

[BruceK]

As above &
to me... Sounds like binding

Check battery is fully charged and at full capacity. If it is cranking too slowly or dropping off it can bind to the ring gear when the engine tries to fire up and then being held back by the starter failing to disengage just draws it into a cycle where there is too much friction for the starter to disengage effectively.
Feel how hot the starter gets, its symptomatic of low voltage.

Strip starter and clean
Check teeth for wear.
Check brushes
check electrical connections
check alignment

Grease the ring gear

 

[MystyBlue2]

Are you sure about the solenoid? It looks like only motors over 115hp have solneoids. The smaller ones seem to use inertia starters.

Yeah il post a pic from crowley marine with a parts diagram.

 

[MystyBlue2]

As above &
to me... Sounds like binding

Check battery is fully charged and at full capacity. If it is cranking too slowly or dropping off it can bind to the ring gear when the engine tries to fire up and then being held back by the starter failing to disengage just draws it into a cycle where there is too much friction for the starter to disengage effectively.
Feel how hot the starter gets, its symptomatic of low voltage.

Strip starter and clean
Check teeth for wear.
Check brushes
check electrical connections

Grease the ring gear

Right...ok the main positive and negative battery wires from motor side are only about 4ft long, they have been extended to 8ft to reach the battery under the cuddy (not by me) using slightly smaller diameter wire.

Do you think this could be the culprit then if a voltage drop is a possibility or would this scenario not cause a voltage drop at all.

Also would a smear of ramonol on the starter and flywheel teeth help it disengage better and reduce the friction you mentioned?

 

[MystyBlue2]

My battery is a 50AH marine deep cycle battery with CCA of 400A

Checked online and minimum cranking amps for my motor is 350CCA. So i seem to be JUST in spec...

 

[Seastoke]

So completely remove the starter when engine is running?

Yeah i could do that but...would i need to do anything with the solenoid as the wires would still be live wouldn't they?

Also with the solenoid and starter removed could this not cause the motor to stall at all?

No i think some one was right the motor spins when power is introduced and engages then power off it should retract, if i remember back in the eighties i had a mariner 40 and same thing happened the circlip on the end of the starter had broke . You could take the starter off and turn the key and watch the spline to come out and then return ,

 

[MystyBlue2]

No i think some one was right the motor spins when power is introduced and engages then power off it should retract, if i remember back in the eighties i had a mariner 40 and same thing happened the circlip on the end of the starter had broke . You could take the starter off and turn the key and watch the spline to come out and then return ,

Ah right ok. I did something similar on my old mariner where i removed the starter wired it upto the battery with jump cables (for a split second) and watched it jump up and retract to eliminate completely dead starter.

Do you think ita worth repeating that in this case then?