Can a family member RYA examiner give me qualifications?

[NingNong247]

I have a family member who is an RYA Yachtmaster Examiner/Instructor. I'd like to get qualified, but I don't know about the ethics/legality of RYA trainers certifying their own family, so I don't want to put her in an uncomfortable situation of telling me no. Her time and effort aren't the issue - she owes me one - it's just about not putting her in an awkward situation.

Is it kosher to ask her this?

 

[RunAgroundHard]

RYA Instructors can teach family members, there is no restrictions stated about this. The Yachtmaster Coastal and Yachtmaster Offshore Certificates of Competency are examined independently from sea schools and the majority of instructors will not be registered as examiners, however, you state that this is the case, instructor / examiner. The point is that conflict of interest has been established by prohibiting sea schools and instructors from offering examination for certificates of competency.

Be sure to understand the difference between RYA course completion certificates and Certificates of Competence.

I recommend that you contact the RYA and seek clarification as they are the responsible body, for conflict of interest, if a family member who is an examiner, examines you for a Certificate of Competence. RYA tuition and RYA course completion certificates, no problem.

 

[Boathook]

Ask her but word the question where it is easy for her to say no. Whilst she might be able to it she may feel uncomfortable doing the training.

 

[Never Grumble]

In my world that would be a conflict of interest.

 

[KevinV]

Ask her but word the question where it is easy for her to say no. Whilst she might be able to it she may feel uncomfortable doing the training.

Quite, or even phrase it in the negative - "I presume you can't...?"

 

[capnsensible]

Doesn't matter who you are, you have to meet the pre exam requirements and be good enough to pass. Can't see what the problem is.

 

[Sandy]

I have friends who are examiners and they all refuse to examine people they are friends of. Don't mix work and friendship, what would happen if they failed you?

As @Never Grumble said I'd see this as a conflict of interest.

 

[zoidberg]

Perhaps someone might authoritatively define the difference between 'qualified' and 'certificated'...... for I sense that, in this context, the difference is ill-understood.

 

[magicol]

I see the difference is between teaching and certification. Absolutely no problem with a family member doing the former but surely it is inappropriate for her to certify one.

 

[penfold]

I see no issue with them instructing you and issuing course completion certificates, examination does raises questions and I'd hope the RYA covers this in the training material for examiners.

 

[capnsensible]

I have friends who are examiners and they all refuse to examine people they are friends of. Don't mix work and friendship, what would happen if they failed you?

As @Never Grumble said I'd see this as a conflict of interest.

Er failed. Round again. Try harder. Yadda yadda.

 

[WindyWindyWindy]

Be sure to understand the difference between RYA course completion certificates and Certificates of Competence.

A DS can be commercially endorsed and is often a minimum requirement for charter.

I think Id put it somewhere between a gcse and a driving licence..

 

[Uricanejack]

Depends.

Personally I find I can instruct anyone except my wife. Although I am an instructor I have never really taught my kids in a formal way. It’s just a funny dynamic. For myself I would prefer to keep it separate from family.
Of course this is partly due to sailing being my thing. Not theirs, if any of them had wanted to do the actual course. It might be different. Rather than feeling obligated by me. My wife having made it quite clear I am not allowed to try and teach her. Has actually picked up quite a bit.
I also tend not to instruct friends unless they specifically ask. Particularly if out sailing with them.
Instructing or training. I can do with anyone who wants me to.

I don’t do formal sailing instruction anymore and haven’t for a long time.
I do train people, or examine to quite high level.

I prefer not to examine people I have trained. Particularly for higher level stuff. Occasionally I end up doing so. I don’t mind training people I know. I prefer not to give some I know an exam. Circumstance often require I do.
It is easier when it’s someone I don’t know. Particularly when the exam is not going well.
However my reputation often precedes me. Somehow people tend to hear I am particularly tough. I am probably tougher on people I know. Which perhalps makes it easier. Yet I very rarely fail anyone.

The best person to ask would be your relative.
My guess if willing. they would prefer to be your instructor rather than the examiner.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

A DS can be commercially endorsed and is often a minimum requirement for charter.

I think Id put it somewhere between a gcse and a driving licence..

A Day Skipper is not a Certificate of Compertance, which is the point; OP wanting to be examined by a relative.

 

[Uricanejack]

A Day Skipper is not a Certificate of Compertance, which is the point; OP wanting to be examined by a relative.

According to the website a Day Skipper with the professional bits added can be used commercially. So I guess it is to the some limited extent.

 

[Refueler]

Similarly - I did not like doing surveys of friends boats ... always felt 'obligated' no matter how it was approached. But to advise or help on a matter is a different matter.... such as possible repairs / work prior to another surveyor doing the survey .... or post survey. It may sound strange - but I did not feel any problem 'signing off a repair' highlighted and completed ...
So in this context - if OP is really talking about Instruction and Course Completion ... fine - why not. But if its Examination - I would feel its a 'conflict of interest'.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

According to the website a Day Skipper with the professional bits added can be used commercially. So I guess it is to the some limited extent.

A Day Skipper course completion certificate, endorsed for commercial use by the owner having a medical, first aid certificate and VHF licence, sent to the RYA for endorsing, is not a certificate of competence in the same why as YMC and YMO. The DS Commercially endorsed does not require examination.

 

[steveeasy]

Well I know nothing about the ins and outs of RYA training and ethics. I know a fair bit about conflict of interest though. Ive also seen a fair bit of formal training and how the systems can be abused for financial gain. Thats when there are rules on who you can and cannot train. where, by who, and who does the assessing.

you state the following
Her time and effort aren't the issue - she owes me one. but you have not spoken to her.

Good Luck
Steveeasy

 

[Skylark]

Course Completion certificates are awarded by the School and should be signed by the principal or chief instructor, not by the individual instructor delivering the course.

An examiner (for a certificate of competence) submits his/her report to the YM panel and any award is issued by RYA on behalf of MCA.

If looking for a definitive "family member" position, I'd put the query to RYA.

 

[capnsensible]

Course Completion certificates are awarded by the School and should be signed by the principal or chief instructor, not by the individual instructor delivering the course.

An examiner (for a certificate of competence) submits his/her report to the YM panel and any award is issued by RYA on behalf of MCA.

If looking for a definitive "family member" position, I'd put the query to RYA.

Unless, clearly, the Principal or the Chief Instructor taught the course. They aren't all office wallahs.....

Anyway, it seems to me some people are questioning the integrity of examiners. Which is nonsense. The examiner must not have taught the candidate. That is straitforward. But no matter who the candidate is, the standard is exactly the same. As you say, a panel assess the award of the certificate of competence. Its not some kinda mafia stitch up.