can a diesel tank explode?

orbister said:
The compression isn't relevant, as far as I know - it's the heat. Incidentally, the diesel/air mix is not compressed in a diesel engine: it's just the air. When that#s nice and hot the diesel is squirted in to burn.
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YES, and just to add the next bit - its the atomisation of the fuel that makes it more combustabe. A dribbling injector wont "fire" but all the elements seem to be there - fuel, air and heat - but no bang. QED
 
The safest way to cut it up is with a Reciprocating Sabre Saw - very quick, not too noisy. no sparks and can be hired easily. I cut up my old diesel tank insitu into three pieces, managing to revolve it to cut all round. I did drain out all the old diesel and as it had an access hatch could mop out any fuel residue.
Don't bother with a jigsaw or cutting disc, the only way is with a Sabre Saw.
 
orbister said:
The compression isn't relevant, as far as I know - it's the heat. Incidentally, the diesel/air mix is not compressed in a diesel engine: it's just the air. When that#s nice and hot the diesel is squirted in to burn.
Click to expand...

Try starting a diesel engine fitted with glow plugs but low compression on all cylinders. No matter how well the injectors are atomising, it'll take plenty of winding over, and then you'll be lucky.... (out comes the Easy Start) Try that with a hand start diesel, no glow plugs but with good compression. Maximum of two turns and you'll be away.
 
saxonpirate said:
Try starting a diesel engine fitted with glow plugs but low compression on all cylinders. No matter how well the injectors are atomising, it'll take plenty of winding over, and then you'll be lucky.
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am going to pass on something I learned from an Irish labourer when we experts had just about given up.

I was tasked with recovery job on a digger and we had tried unsuccessfully to just pull it out. We were trying to start a diesel tracked vehicle which had been submerged for several hours in sea water. We had to get the engine started to move the tracks and break the suction. We had changed the oil, drained everything in sight, supplied fresh diesel, copious quantities of easystart and the second set of new batteries were dying and we were standing around scratching our heads. It had never even offered and the tide was rising again. The owner said " It had always been a ***** to start,"

At this point the labourer said " Ooil start it for you sur".

He produced his copy of the Sun, selected a suitable couple of pages [avoided page 3 for some reason] and soaked them in diesel. He then removed the air cleaner, lit the newspaper, stuffed it in the air intake and hit the starter button. 3 seconds later we had a running engine.

My point is that if you have atomised diesel and air and an ignition source it will burn. Confine it in a tank and it will explode.

PS Congrats to the OP for an interesting topic, second most replies on page 1.

PPS I am not absolutely sure I would do this on a boat with a wet exhaust as the engine in question had a volcanic looking exhaust for several seconds as the burning newspaper was sprayed out the exhaust. But if you were in danger and had to get the engine running you could give it a try.
 
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Exploding Diesel

Watched a guy a few years back sitting and re-welding a plate on the side of a narrow boat .. The owner had welded a plate on and converted the locker into a diesel storage tank .. His plate, put on with a low power electric welder then started to leak as he moved up the river .. So this guy sits there with a proper industrial ark welder and welds the patch on properly while it was still leaking diesel ..

Would check your insurance though as if it does go bang they may well not want to pay up ..

Sharp chisel and a wooden mallet and use it like a tin opener .. or .. ask the local fire service if they fancy a bit of on the job training .. Might cost you a few beers mind you but they do have all the kit .. They can even put it out if it does go bang .. :D
 
Fire ALERT

3 things needed that can cause an explosion

FUEL
OXYGEN
and a source of ignition

Fuel = Diesel
OYYGEN = AIR
IGNITION = Heat and Sparks (grinder)

You would probably get away with but you are in a confined space

and that in itself is a risk

Personally I would not risk it and would seek an alternative method.
 
TQA said:
am going to pass on something I learned from an Irish labourer when we experts had just about given up.

My point is that if you have atomised diesel and air and an ignition source it will burn. Confine it in a tank and it will explode.
Click to expand...

I did have to laugh, when I read the "Flaming Sun" super start bit. Brought back a few memories. I spent about 13 years working as a field service engineer for the likes of Caterpiller, John Deere and Poclain. A long time ago, I must add. Many's the time I've set fire to just about anything I could get my hands on to coax some tired, worn out machine to fire, including the oxy/acetylene torch on the inlet manifold. Scotland in winter was nice...

Certainly agree that atomised/vapourised fuel in the confines of a tank will explode. As long as a gaseous state exists the danger of ignition is there.
 
Some diverse opinions here!

I'm going to stick to my guns and re-iterate that yes it can go bang.
If there is EDIT flammable ENDEDIT hydrocarbon vapour mixed with the correct amount of air and a source of ignition is provided it will go bang, whether compressed or not...
Some good ideas here to reduce the risk, but it's up to the OP if he decides to take his chances.
I thought that the idea of vacuum collapsing the tank was brilliant, a real case of lateral thinking and probably well worth a try.

Whatever the final decision is, good luck, and take care.
 
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misterg said:
Sorry for the diversion, but just in case:

The above is true(ish) for petrol engine exhaust, but *not* for diesel engine exhaust (which will still contain almost as much oxygen as the ambient air unless the engine is running under a heavy load).

Andy
Click to expand...

Please inform Inert Gas Generator producers for ships ..... most are Diesel fired. O2 content is less than 5% ... often nearer 2%. Considerably lower than 21% in outside air.
 
TQA said:
am going to pass on something I learned from an Irish labourer when we experts had just about given up.

I was tasked with recovery job on a digger and we had tried unsuccessfully to just pull it out. We were trying to start a diesel tracked vehicle which had been submerged for several hours in sea water. We had to get the engine started to move the tracks and break the suction. We had changed the oil, drained everything in sight, supplied fresh diesel, copious quantities of easystart and the second set of new batteries were dying and we were standing around scratching our heads. It had never even offered and the tide was rising again. The owner said " It had always been a ***** to start,"

At this point the labourer said " Ooil start it for you sur".

He produced his copy of the Sun, selected a suitable couple of pages [avoided page 3 for some reason] and soaked them in diesel. He then removed the air cleaner, lit the newspaper, stuffed it in the air intake and hit the starter button. 3 seconds later we had a running engine.

My point is that if you have atomised diesel and air and an ignition source it will burn. Confine it in a tank and it will explode.

PS Congrats to the OP for an interesting topic, second most replies on page 1.

PPS I am not absolutely sure I would do this on a boat with a wet exhaust as the engine in question had a volcanic looking exhaust for several seconds as the burning newspaper was sprayed out the exhaust. But if you were in danger and had to get the engine running you could give it a try.
Click to expand...

Perkins Cold Start for years worked on principle of "popping" a small dribble of diesel on a glow plug ... the small flame would be sucked down the intake and assist the firing of diesel injected in cylinders.

So that woulod apparently indicate diesel DOES explode ...... no - wrong. The glowplug needs 15 - 25 sec's to heat up and get that dribble of diesel hot enough to IGNITE ... not explode. The pop is the tiny amount of spirit vapour that is present in all diesels. The flame gets the engine going - because it is additional to : Compression that increases temp. substantially, atomised diesel that increases air surface area contact of the fuel ... add all together and it fires.

Another poster has correctly mentioned diesel mist - but that applies to most dry and liquid articles. Wood pulp, sawdust, cotton, fabrics, oils, grain, coal, .... even household dust .... they ALL can explode given right circumstances. Sawmills and wood processing plants have strict rules about this.
Engines designed to run on coal slurry from ground coal ....

So get it right please.

Back to Diesel - every day we test diesel and other fuesl for Flash Point. The temp at which a product will on addition of a flame will flash over without continued combustion. Diesel is certainly WELL above ambient environmental temp. Only way to get it fire would be : agitation, atomising to mist form, heating, compression..... and these would then need a fire medium introduced.
 
TQA said:
He produced his copy of the Sun, selected a suitable couple of pages [avoided page 3 for some reason] and soaked them in diesel. He then removed the air cleaner, lit the newspaper, stuffed it in the air intake and hit the starter button. 3 seconds later we had a running engine.
Click to expand...

If my CH boiler has been cold for a while - over the summer, say, the easiest way to get it to start is to scrunch up some newspaper, stuff it into the firebox and set fire to it. Once everything's a bit warmer the diesel catches beautifully ...

My point is that if you have atomised diesel and air and an ignition source it will burn. Confine it in a tank and it will explode.
Click to expand...

... although it doesn't explode.
 
Refueler said:
Please inform Inert Gas Generator producers for ships ..... most are Diesel fired. O2 content is less than 5% ... often nearer 2%. Considerably lower than 21% in outside air.
Click to expand...

I said engine, not "Inert Gas Generator". I think you'll find that a lightly loaded / idling diesel engine will have of the order of 15-20% oxygen in its exhaust gasses.

Refueler said:
So get it right please.
Click to expand...

Quite :D

Andy
 
saxonpirate said:
Try starting a diesel engine fitted with glow plugs but low compression on all cylinders. No matter how well the injectors are atomising, it'll take plenty of winding over, and then you'll be lucky.... (out comes the Easy Start) Try that with a hand start diesel, no glow plugs but with good compression. Maximum of two turns and you'll be away.
Click to expand...

The compression makes the air hot, the diessel is also compressed and is thus hot, no compression, no hot.

It's the hot that counts.

As for "explosion", there are two different explosions, one is where you have burning in a confined space and the resulting gas pressure is greater than the container can stand, the other is detonation where the flame front expands faster than sound creating its own pressure wave.
It's hard to make diesel detonate.

Although it doesn't really matter which happens in your boat.

You could fill the tank with CO2 from an extinguisher (or a soda-stream tank) to get rid of the air while you work, but then you might have trouble breathing.
 
We use two different types of diesel on the farm; winter grade and summer grade.

Are the flash point temperatures very different Refueler please ?
 
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