Calorifier - basic questions

[Overandunder]

Hi all - my first 'big boat' was purchased a couple of months ago and I'm still learning the do's and don'ts of it's features (eberspacher and pressurised hot and cold water - all factory installed) - I've not had experience of these before.

Although I understand the basic principle of the calorifier (and have searched the forum), I'm after some advice on the basics really.

1. Presumably the engine normally circulates the hot water through the calorifier when running - or do they usually have a dedicated pump ? The unit on mine is buried under a fixed plate at the bottom of a cockpit locker - so not easy to access.

2. I was warned before I bought the boat not to 'put anything from the fresh water tank into your scotch'. This is a plastic Flexi tank with stagnant water therein. If I were to empty this fully- does the calorifier retain enough water to prevent overheating- i.e if I undertake a long passage under engine will it be ok ?

Sorry for the very basic questions but I'm learning on the hoof here - and want to avoid any potential foul up.

Boat is a 2006 Jeanneau SO 29.2. Any other tips greatly appreciated.

 

[snowbird30ds]

Engine coolant is usually circulated through the calorifier by the engines own water pump (coolant pump not raw water pump) so only circulates when the engine is running except from any thermal syphon effects.
As long as you don't have an immersion heater switched on there is no problem emptying the calorifier, nothing will overheat as it will only get up to coolant temperature.
If you give the water tank and pipework a good clean out there's no problem with drinking from it, a yearly hydrogen peroxide flush (not household bleach) will kill anything off as long as you use it and don't let it sit for months, I've always used the water from my stainless tank with no problems, I've never understood the idea of carrying 140 litres of water in a tank and buying bottles of water.

 

[geem]

Engine coolant is usually circulated through the calorifier by the engines own water pump (coolant pump not raw water pump) so only circulates when the engine is running except from any thermal syphon effects.
As long as you don't have an immersion heater switched on there is no problem emptying the calorifier, nothing will overheat as it will only get up to coolant temperature.
If you give the water tank and pipework a good clean out there's no problem with drinking from it, a yearly hydrogen peroxide flush (not household bleach) will kill anything off as long as you use it and don't let it sit for months, I've always used the water from my stainless tank with no problems, I've never understood the idea of carrying 140 litres of water in a tank and buying bottles of water.

I would add, I have posted about this recently, that the addition of a pair of 10" clear water filter housing after the pressure pump makes a world of difference. The first housing uses a 1 micron filter. The second housing uses a carbon block filter. You then have good tasting water from every tap on the boat. No need to carry bottled water. If the I micron filter is getting dirty quickly, you may want to clean the tank. Think of this filter condition as a barometer of tank condition. The purpose of this filter it to protect the carbon filter from contamination and extend its life. 1 micron filter are cheaper than carbon filters

 

[Plum]

Hi all - my first 'big boat' was purchased a couple of months ago and I'm still learning the do's and don'ts of it's features (eberspacher and pressurised hot and cold water - all factory installed) - I've not had experience of these before.

Although I understand the basic principle of the calorifier (and have searched the forum), I'm after some advice on the basics really.

1. Presumably the engine normally circulates the hot water through the calorifier when running - or do they usually have a dedicated pump ? The unit on mine is buried under a fixed plate at the bottom of a cockpit locker - so not easy to access.

2. I was warned before I bought the boat not to 'put anything from the fresh water tank into your scotch'. This is a plastic Flexi tank with stagnant water therein. If I were to empty this fully- does the calorifier retain enough water to prevent overheating- i.e if I undertake a long passage under engine will it be ok ?

Sorry for the very basic questions but I'm learning on the hoof here - and want to avoid any potential foul up.

Boat is a 2006 Jeanneau SO 29.2. Any other tips greatly appreciated.

1) there is no additional pump, the engine coolant circulation pump ensures some fliw through the calorifier

2) if running the engine with insufficient fresh water in the calorifier it will not overheat. If you have a 230volt immersion heater in the calorifier too then the heating element will overheat if not fully immersed in water and either trip the safety cutout or blow.

Edit; sorry to geem above, was typing at the same time as you, same answer

 

[Plum]

Hi all - my first 'big boat' was purchased a couple of months ago and I'm still learning the do's and don'ts of it's features (eberspacher and pressurised hot and cold water - all factory installed) - I've not had experience of these before.

Although I understand the basic principle of the calorifier (and have searched the forum), I'm after some advice on the basics really.

1. Presumably the engine normally circulates the hot water through the calorifier when running - or do they usually have a dedicated pump ? The unit on mine is buried under a fixed plate at the bottom of a cockpit locker - so not easy to access.

2. I was warned before I bought the boat not to 'put anything from the fresh water tank into your scotch'. This is a plastic Flexi tank with stagnant water therein. If I were to empty this fully- does the calorifier retain enough water to prevent overheating- i.e if I undertake a long passage under engine will it be ok ?

Sorry for the very basic questions but I'm learning on the hoof here - and want to avoid any potential foul up.

Boat is a 2006 Jeanneau SO 29.2. Any other tips greatly appreciated.

I agree with post #2 above. Guess the previous owner had neglected the hygiene of the fresh water tank. Once you have cleaned it I recommend adding the product AquaSol to the tank every time you fill up. You can then drink the water. I have been doing this for 8 years and have not had to clean the tank since.
https://www.tcschandlery.co.uk/aqua-sol-water-treatment-300-ml/p10212?srsltid=AfmBOoodWXYebg8_FvCjITwoN-zHNtXtn6A1cZb_CgTiBvoL34wCbcbq8Cg

 

[geem]

I agree with post #2 above. Guess the previous owner had neglected the hygiene of the fresh water tank. Once you have cleaned it I recommend adding the product AquaSol to the tank every time you fill up. You can then drink the water. I have been doing this for 8 years and have not had to clean the tank since.
https://foxschandlery.com/products/aqua-sol-complete-water-treatment-300ml?variant=43334781829356&nbt=nb%3Aadwords%3Ax%3A21588825766%3A%3A&nb_adtype=pla&nb_kwd=&nb_ti=&nb_mi=9405570&nb_pc=online&nb_pi=43334781829356&nb_ppi=&nb_placement=&nb_li_ms=&nb_lp_ms=&nb_fii=&nb_ap=&nb_mt=&tw_source=google&tw_adid=&tw_campaign=21588825766&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw4Oe4BhCcARIsADQ0csktU0G9nIUyOYmS5_TOuw5AP4e1qGLP2KnZIPGC_E4vrsutFkc-5OIaAozCEALw_wcB

Why drink chemicals when you only need to dose the tank at the start of the season then flush it a couple of times before filling up and using it. Good filtration is all that is needed then. Most tap water contains chlorine anyway. This is normally removed when you boil the water or just leave an open pan and it will evaporate

 

[wingcommander]

One other point. You will not empty the calorifier through running the taps dry . This only pumps the storage bags out. Your calorifier will remain full unless you drain it independently via a drain cock or your PRV . ( if prv is fitted at low point) . An old Skipper of mine thought he had winterised his water system by opening all taps . He discovered on filling in Spring it was a very costly mistake

 

[Plum]

Why drink chemicals when you only need to dose the tank at the start of the season then flush it a couple of times before filling up and using it. Good filtration is all that is needed then. Most tap water contains chlorine anyway. This is normally removed when you boil the water or just leave an open pan and it will evaporate

Yes, there are different ways and I am sure yours works but I am sticking with what works for me without having to fit and maintain filters. The OP can choose.

 

[geem]

Yes, there are different ways and I am sure yours works but I am sticking with what works for me without having to fit and maintain filters. The OP can choose.

I worry what a" powerful biocide" does to your health. Not something I want to subject my body to

 

[Stemar]

One other point. You will not empty the calorifier through running the taps dry . This only pumps the storage bags out. Your calorifier will remain full unless you drain it independently via a drain cock or your PRV . ( if prv is fitted at low point) . An old Skipper of mine thought he had winterised his water system by opening all taps . He discovered on filling in Spring it was a very costly mistake

A friend made the same expensive mistake, in spite of having a heater in the cabin that ran for a couple of hours every day during the winter. Drain the calorifier in winter.

 

[Babylon]

I don't disagree with Plum or geem at all, just that on my boat (flexible tanks replaced in 2011, galley water delivered via a normal charcoal filter) I don't typically need to drink the tank water. I can, as it is perfectly fine to the taste and safe either cold or boiled for tea, just that I have three 5 litre plastic jerrycans for drinking water that I fill up from taps ashore and decant into our water bottles as needed, easily enough for several days drinking.

I flush and clean my main tanks (180 litres) before each season, and the trick then is to simply keep up a regular throughput of fresh water. I do dose the tank water whenever I refill with a tiny amount of Yachticon Aqua Clean (specified for our flexible rubber tanks) but this has no effect on taste as far as I can discern.

Sometimes, especially in warm weather when I haven't used the boat for a while, there's a slight smell from the cold-water tap in the heads, from bacteria in the flexible pipes rather than in the tanks, but that disappears after a bit of running.

 

[snowbird30ds]

I worry what a" powerful biocide" does to your health. Not something I want to subject my body to

The stuff I use is sanosil AG once a year, it's just hydrogen peroxide with silver ions and made to be used in drinking water at low levels, at kill levels just flush after 4-5 hours and leave it 24 hours and fully drinkable, the joy of h2o2 is once it has reacted it is just h2o.
Not cheap but we use it at work....
Sanosil Super 25Ag | Sanosil

 

[justanothersailboat]

Fortunately there's such a thing as the MSDS and that reveals Aqua Sol to be made of pretty commonplace and unworrying stuff. (It's along the chlorine bleach lines, though. Snowbird's alternative is interesting but not so easy to buy)

How you use the boat and how you can approach tank water seem to go hand in hand. Geem's filters sound great for a liveaboard but I don't much like the idea of leaving a filter system sitting for a couple of months unflushed, they can definitely go bad while you're not looking.

Some people with flexi tanks manage to pull them out and take them away for a thorough cleaning once a year - it seems to be easier to be sure it's clean, than doing it in situ, because you can really move the thing. A boat I sometimes sail on that is used a lot, also does that and it works well. My boat is used for mostly shorter trips and lives on a mooring buoy, so topups are rare, I am much more wary of the state of the tank water. Overandunder's previous owner may just be thinking along those lines. (Congratulations on the boat!)

 

[Overandunder]

Fortunately there's such a thing as the MSDS and that reveals Aqua Sol to be made of pretty commonplace and unworrying stuff. (It's along the chlorine bleach lines, though. Snowbird's alternative is interesting but not so easy to buy)

How you use the boat and how you can approach tank water seem to go hand in hand. Geem's filters sound great for a liveaboard but I don't much like the idea of leaving a filter system sitting for a couple of months unflushed, they can definitely go bad while you're not looking.

Some people with flexi tanks manage to pull them out and take them away for a thorough cleaning once a year - it seems to be easier to be sure it's clean, than doing it in situ, because you can really move the thing. A boat I sometimes sail on that is used a lot, also does that and it works well. My boat is used for mostly shorter trips and lives on a mooring buoy, so topups are rare, I am much more wary of the state of the tank water. Overandunder's previous owner may just be thinking along those lines. (Congratulations on the boat!)

Thanks to you and all the posters for the helpful replies - all very useful. To quote the surveyor the boat is sound overall - but needs every system to be checked and serviced / refurbished (boat not really used for 3 years or so).

 

[rogerthebodger]

The only liquid a Scotsman adds to his scotch is more scotch never never water fish sh1t in it

My engine circulating pump, pump the hot water around my calorifier with on extra pump as in the old car heaters

 

[vyv_cox]

The only liquid a Scotsman adds to his scotch is more scotch never never water fish sh1t in it

My engine circulating pump, pump the hot water around my calorifier with on extra pump as in the old car heaters

Yes, I fitted the calorifier in my motorsailer about a metre above and a couple of metres to the side the of the engine. It needed a small booster pump to overcome the additional resistance/head. The circulation pump in the Yanmar 3GM30F in my Sadler easily copes with the calorifier alongside it.

Unlike a raw water cooled engine that always needs an additional pump.

 

[rogerthebodger]

My engine is an old Leyland that was fitted into some cars which in the UK needed heaters in the cars in winter as I remember too often.

Now I tend to use Aircon more than heaters