KevinV
Well-Known Member
They're going to be stressed out - I've done it myself. My crib sheet specifically says "release talk button"
Calling for help
- Thread starter DanTribe
- Start date
flaming
Well-Known Member
Well yes, exactly. I have no idea what you're even quibbling about as quite clearly we agree....
If you don't have DSC that it gets a bit more nuanced for a complete novice having had a 30s briefing at the start of the day. And I'll stick with "use what you're comfortable with".
flaming
Well-Known Member
You underestimate what stress does to people when doing tasks that they're not familiar with.
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
Agree. My lad was an experienced user of transmit buttons because, for his early years, PMR radios were our primary/only source of comms on campsites and on the water. He never got used to holding the tx button down for the entire duration he talked. Almost every transmission he'd miss the end/beginning or both, even when prompted.
Mind you, he couldn't use a phone at that age either.
I never mentioned the red button because he'd have pressed it every 5 minutes.
Again, all of this is academic because none of us are ever going to be a "new to big boats" child/teenager. A "new to big boats" child/teenager is going to do what seems sensible and familiar in the moment.
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
I actually don't do that.
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
I don't see it as quibbling to point out that some want to make a situation very hard when the solution is very simple....
flaming
Well-Known Member
You do if you think simply saying "release the button once you've finished talking" as part of a quick safety brief at the start of what's supposed to be nothing more taxing than a nice day out is enough to ensure that they actually do that when the skipper is in the drink with a head injury.
flaming
Well-Known Member
Nobody is making it "very hard" I'm merely pointing out that telling new crew that their phone is a very powerful comms and location device that can be used in an emergency is not a bad idea.
andsarkit
Well-Known Member
I recently came across Sarloc that is used by Mountain Rescue to locate walkers using their own phone to send a location. I don't know much about it but would seem like a good idea if the person in distress is confused or unable to establish their location. Perhaps other people on the forum might have direct experience of it's usefullness.
Sarloc
Sarloc
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Lift flap. Push button.
flaming
Well-Known Member
If you have DSC. It's like I'm talking to a brick wall.
And even if you do have DSC, if you want to tell the coastguard what's occurred, and then hear them tell you things, you need to press the button and release it.
jbweston
Well-Known Member
Something that occurs to me. The crew members (if they are above 7 or 8 years of age and don't have a serious learning disability) have a responsibility to take some care for their own and the boat's safety. So if they can't be bothered to attend to to a relevant and concise safety briefing including how to read the step-by-step instructions for making a DSC Mayday posted by the radio and as a minimum can't remember how to press and hold the red button, I don't think I want them on my boat.
And as I said above I'm very happy for them to wave and shout, use the mobile phones or form a human pyramid on the foredeck waving a bedsheet if that seems the easiest and quickest way to summon help in the circumstances. But please, my instruction as skipper is that the primary way to summon help in most of the distress situations in which we'll find ourselves is to press that red button and be ready to give any further helpful information the Coastguard asks for. On my boat at least.
If you don't have DSC, surely the average person can be taught to select Ch 16 (often there's a button helpfully labelled '16') and make a short voice call - including the word 'HELP!', if the stresses of the moment prevent him/her from reading the placard with the full procedure.
And as I said above I'm very happy for them to wave and shout, use the mobile phones or form a human pyramid on the foredeck waving a bedsheet if that seems the easiest and quickest way to summon help in the circumstances. But please, my instruction as skipper is that the primary way to summon help in most of the distress situations in which we'll find ourselves is to press that red button and be ready to give any further helpful information the Coastguard asks for. On my boat at least.
If you don't have DSC, surely the average person can be taught to select Ch 16 (often there's a button helpfully labelled '16') and make a short voice call - including the word 'HELP!', if the stresses of the moment prevent him/her from reading the placard with the full procedure.
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
It's like saying everyone has a super smart phone.
Choose the level of safety brief according to your trip. It's not hard.
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Don't let common sense invade this thread!!
flaming
Well-Known Member
That is literally what I've been saying.
But now I'm going to stop arguing with a wall and do something more productive.
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
Yeah, not sure this contradicts anything anyone is saying. Most people might be able to pick up making a VHF mayday in briefing.
In the event they might capably do it. Equally, they might think their mobile is better.
ylop
Well-Known Member
Exactly - although I say hold this button, a short press is not enough.
What is interesting is EVERYONE (from 8 to 80) who has ever had that briefing on either of the boats I’ve owned with DSC has been much more interested / engaged around that - they want to lift the flap to see the button. I doubt I’d get the same engagement from technology they think they know.
If I was sailing with teenagers I would actually be checking that they knew that. It might sound obvious to you but not every teenager has actually worked out how to get help. Many watch so much us media content they may think it’s 911. Many will not talk on the phone at all. AND whilst it’s obvious to everyone here that you should call the CG many adults never mind teenagers seem oblivious to that. Now you sail in an area with good mobile reception, but is it good on all networks? Do they know a phone will work cross network for 999 calls? Or will work without credit? If you think this is all stupidly obvious go find someone who teaches first aid courses, especially first aid courses for teenagers. There’s a non-zero possibility that your demise is being live streamed before anyone does the obvious (by whatever means) because young people are not attuned to voice comms. Hence my focus on pressing the red button being important.
But it’s not actually going to stop the key details getting out and the fact everyone sees your panic/incompetence is a clue what they are dealing with.
Ever spoke to someone who handles 999 calls for emergency services? I studied with someone who worked weekends answering for the ambulance service and am friends with someone who recently retired from police Scotland’s control room. People die because of shit 999 calls. If the caller doesn’t give a sensible answer to “which service do your require”, is inaudible or too panicked to be properly understood they are handed first to the police. There’s no easy way to transfer the call to CG once they know - either they take all the details and relay them OR they tell you to hang up and call 999 and ask for CG. Obviously some people would prefer to talk to police as they won’t ask for a call sign or MMSI!
Thinking about the OPs question a bit more - it would probably make sense to pick one of the more sensible/competent people and give them clear instructions so that if you are not on board/incapacitated everyone knows they will manage the response. Everyone still knows about the red flap/button - because they might be told to do it but the new “leader” makes sure its been done.
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
I won't be... but those are all very fair points that resonate with me. (And apply to me too - it takes me an eternity to open up the phone keypad view. I'm so used to selecting a contact from the recent calls list that's where my fingers automatically go.)
KevinV
Well-Known Member
Doesn't matter - dial 999, 911 or the European 112 in the UK and you get the 999 operator.
I agree with most else that you say though
newtothis
Well-Known Member
Where I grew up it was 111 (old rotary phone dials were the other way around). 60 years on it's still my default thought. Wonder if that one works here.Doesn't matter - dial 999, 911 or the European 112 in the UK and you get the 999 operator.
I agree with most else that you say though