Call yourself an engineer?

Bilgediver said:
Well in our company most of the sub sea engineers were ex Marine chief engineers and so bought a wealth of experience to the field..Once you have graduated to the heights of chief engineer the hydraulics devised by Koomey and Cameron are child,s play . Happy Daz:) Just help keep them turning to the right.
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Agreed,
the best engineers I have met are nearly always ex Ships Engineers. None of this sitting around waiting for a part. They just knock it up in the lathe and get the job done.

"...devised by Koomey and Cameron are child,s play ..."
I wouldn't say the Vetco, Kvaerner systems were rocket science either. :-)
 
I am a Engineer. I pay over £100 pa to be one. :rolleyes: I do also have a range of qualifications & relevant high level industrial experience tested by peer recommendation and panel interview. I can write "C.Eng. MITE" after my name & sign passports. And I have rebuilt car & boat engines in my time - but I would need the manual to do it.

So there you go, another English word that has a whole range of meanings depending on its use & context. Are you any wiser - or was it just a Troll?
 
You can become listed as an Engineer in by applying to be listed on a register in Europe. You need degrees, experience and some other bumph to be recognised. Your designation would be EurEng. This recognition is not compulsory in the UK but may one day become so. I cant for the life remember the registers name FEANY, FEENY FEINY, whatever.

I am an EngTech with the IIE, Institute of Incorporated Engineers, it wasn't hard to become an EngTech.

I am trying to become a Chartered Engineer and have to sit the Engineering Council Exams, provide evidence of Competency and pay the fee.

When modifying my house I had to get Engineering Calculations from an approved Structural Engineer - again it was a member of a recognised institution who is accepted by the Engineering Council.

That great Scottish family, the Stevenson's were not members of any formal institutions but were some of the few individuals who made the Empire happen through fantastic feats of Engineering.

Its not so clear in the UK and the designation is certainly put about too much. My own pet hate is Planning Engineer - nothing more than a Gantt Chart pilot. String em all up, I say.

As a by the way, in Russia to be an Engineer is to be at the top of the respect ladder. A doctor, lawyer or accountant is near the bottom of the respect ladder, naturally so. Gorgeous Russian woman ask "are you an engineer" when deciding if you are good enough to pick up! Me being short, bald and fat didn't seem to enter into the decision making process. A wonderful country of enlightened people, but I digress.......
 
Who is an engineer

Sharkbait said:
It was once said by someone that anyone can build a strong aircraft, but its only an Engineer that can build an aircraft that is just strong enough.
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I am an engineer with all the qualifications but now retired . Even been a PE in Canada however if one wants to be a real professional then you must go further and be prepared to take on your back all the legal responsibility that that entails including being sued personally etc by third parties and others for whatever reason
like other Professions one must take Indemnity insurance . Not many so called engineers in the UK do that . A minor fine and the rest carried by the firm you work for
 
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I guess I'm one...

I often find in my industry that degree qualified engineers don't even know which way to turn a spanner, they think that is for mechanics.
Personally I think that modern fast-tracking is the root cause of this, degree qualified engineers often used to be people who had started at the bottom, got a wealth of experience and then had gone on to get their degree(s) later in life...
Mind you, I don't think that I'm as clever as these chaps (who taught me most of what I know) and although my present employer recognises my UK Chief's ticket as a Bachelor's, presumably so that I fit into a modern American styled (NOT American though) corporate structure, I don't think that I'll ever really have a degree and I'm not in my professional institute, but the MCA say I'm an engineer.

I guess the answer to the OP is that whatever their qualifications there are good engineers, worthy of the title, and those that aren't.
 
Bilgediver said:
Well in our company most of the sub sea engineers were ex Marine chief engineers and so bought a wealth of experience to the field..Once you have graduated to the heights of chief engineer the hydraulics devised by Koomey and Cameron are child,s play . Happy Daz:) Just help keep them turning to the right.
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mmmm not to sure about that. Many of them only have to keep the stocks of spares up to date and service the kit before its run, not much thought involved, and they mess that up spectacularly. The ability to read a service manual, or follow the procedure, appears to diminish the more "experienced" these guys get. Turn to the right; not because of a subsea engineer that's for sure!
 
Reminded of the story..

About an engineer who died, but on getting to the Pearly Gates was met by St Peter who told him that even though all engineers should go to Heaven, because his name wasn't on the list he would have to go to Hell...

So off to Hell went the engineer, but soon as he got there he wanted to make things better so off he went to chat to Satan...

"Listen Satan, it's bloody boiling down here, how long's the air conditioning been off?"
Satan replied "We've never had A/C, this is Hell, it's always been hot"
The engineer replied "Well I can change that for you, I'll build a big new A/C plant and that'll cool things down"

So, with Satan's somewhat sceptical backing away went the engineer and built the A/C plant...

A while later the engineer went to see Satan again...

"Hello Nick, well we're cooling down nicely but it's still a bit smelly down here. I suggest a nice air purification plant."

Satan replied "What? You mean you can get rid of this bloomin' awful stink of sulphur and brimstone, go ahead Mr. Engineer"

Off went the engineer and cracked on... and sure enough pretty soon Hell was becoming less odious...

Eventually the engineer went to see Satan... "About this lava running through the streets. Nasty stuff, and there's no way I can stop it flowing, so I suggest we build a great big diversion channel to keep it out of town"

Satan says "Well Mr. Engineer that would be a great improvement. Off you.."

Just then Satan's telephone rang, the hotline.. "Excuse me, I'd better answer this, it's Himself upstairs" he said to the engineer.

Sure enough, it's God on the phone, and he is not happy...

"Now you listen to me Satan, you know as well as I do that all engineers come to Heaven, so send my engineer upstairs right now"

Satan replies "P**s off, I'm keeping him, he's doing great things down here, he's mine now"

Of course this makes God furious...
"SEND MY ENGINEER BACK TO HEAVEN RIGHT NOW OR ELSE!"

"Or else what?" says Satan "What are You going to do to me? You've already banished me down here for eternity"

By now God is losing it...
"IF YOU DON'T SEND MY ENGINEER BACK I'LL.... I'LL SUE YOU, SO THERE!"

At this Satan collapses into fits of laughter, rolling round on the floor, tears coming form his eyes. Anyway after a while he manages to control his mirth and picks up the phone, where he can now hear that God is absolutely apoplectic.... But before God can say anything else Satan manages to gasp...




"And just where are You going to find a lawyer?"...
 
Once upon a time, and not so long ago, one became a chartered engineer by starting off doing an apprenticeship, following that up with an HND, years of good practical experience and then you could apply to become a chartered engineer.
My senior colleague (who founded our little survey company here almost 40 years ago) followed that route and he was a brilliant engineer - not many can claim to have corporate memberships of the Institutions of Naval Architects, Marine Engineers and Mechanical Engineers. He had started off as an apprentice working in the dry dock here, then moved to the sugar factories, and then returned to marine engines later on.

Then the Engineering Council moved the goalposts re the requirements / qualifications needed to attain chartered status - you now needed an honours degree followed by appropriate working experience. I got my Naval Architecture degree 23 years ago and applied for C.Eng 11 years ago - this involved attending for interview at RINA in London.
I got it, hence am now technically a chartered engineer, yet I will freely admit that I am useless at taking engines and mechanical systems apart (and that is what most people think engineers do).

Because I obtained chartered status through the Naval Architects Institution (for which I pay an annual fee), I am eligible to apply for full corporate member status of the Institute of Marine Engineers (I was an associate member for a while, just to subscribe to their excellent journals).
Yet I have a friend who is a time served marine engineer (he left the sea with his Chief's ticket) who went on to become a senior surveyor with Lloyds Register. He knows far more about engines that I can ever dream of, yet because he followed the traditional route he was apparently 'too late' to become a chartered engineer, because the Council decreed that he needed a degree..... the best he could get was Incorporated Engineer status.

And they have since moved the goal posts again - nowadays, if you want to become a Chartered Engineer I understand that you need to have a post graduate qualification - a simple honours degree is not sufficient. Another pal of mine obtained a good honours degree in Ship Science about 8 years ago, and he would need to do a Masters now in order to get C.Eng behind his name.

PS - Re Paul's story above - brilliant! I shall send that on to some lawyer pals.... :)
 
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I once worked as an electronic design engineer for a company in Paris. The customer of the project I was working on at the time, Bosch, was sufficiently impressed to recruit me to work for them in Germany (despite the fact at the time I did not know a word of German).

Anyway, they were offering me a very senior engineering position and had bypassed the usual recruitment route of going through human resources.

Later on, when I arrived in Germany and had to sign all the usual forms etc, the human resources department were horrified to find out that I was not qualified as an engineer (I have an MA in Maths), but that I was going to be in a senior engineering position.

They where then even less impressed when they found out that the A in MA stands for Arts - they thought I was better qualified as a painter!

Then, for the first time probably ever, when they made my business cards, they did not put any professional qualification on it. Up until then, every Bosch engineer always had his engineering qualification on his business card!

The guy who recruited me, who broke all the rules, is now CTO (i.e. the number 2) at Bosch.
 
'' add lightness and simplicity''

Isn't that the engineer mantra?

Sometimes having several components left over after rebuilding something, does this qualify me to be some sort of 'Reverse Engineer',I wonder ?
 
BlowingOldBoots said:
mmmm not to sure about that. Many of them only have to keep the stocks of spares up to date and service the kit before its run, not much thought involved, and they mess that up spectacularly. The ability to read a service manual, or follow the procedure, appears to diminish the more "experienced" these guys get. Turn to the right; not because of a subsea engineer that's for sure!
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You think SubSea Engineers are bad? What about your so called Drillers and Toolpushers nowadays? Most of them have never even SEEN a manual Derrick, never mind worked one. Don't even get me started on manual Tongs .........
 
I'm a Chartered Engineer, I became chartered comparatively late in life following a 5 year traditional apprenticeship, years of college, progressively more responsible positions etc. Being chartered didn't necessarily make me any more capable than those of my colleagues who weren't, nor did it get me any more salary. One benefit was that membership of my chartered institution (the I.E.E.) gave me access to the latest thinking and developments in my branch of engineering. Another was the snob value of having letters after my name on my business card (if you're into that kind of thing). Oh and I could sign passport verifications for friends.

I wouldn't want to over-hype professional qualifications because so many brilliant engineers never had them and no doubt many mediocrities do. I do think there is confusion in the public mind between engineers and tradesmen. A mechanic is not an engineer - he couldn't design an engine and calculate the stresses in its working parts etc. yet many a roadside garage describes itself as 'motor engineers'. Similarly for electricians and domestic appliance repairers etc. - all describe themselves erroneously as engineers.
 
From http://www.archiveshub.ac.uk/oct06a.shtml
"The Amalgamated Engineering Union was established in 1851 as the Amalgamated Society of Engineers. It was the first 'general' union of skilled and semi-skilled labour in the engineering industry, the product of a merger between craft unions such as millwrights, machinists, and smiths. The union still exists today as Amicus. The archive, held at the Modern Records Centre, includes some of the oldest and most important records for industrial history over the last 150 years".

The use of engineer as a man with a hammer back in 1851 set the rot for the term engineer. You would have thought that professional engineers, at the time, with qualifications would have thought of a new name for themselves. They are the ones to blame for all engineers since being considered as men with hammers and paid accordingly - hense the demise of engineering and the engineering industry in the UK in comparison with Germany, France and Italy.
 
puddock said:
You think SubSea Engineers are bad? What about your so called Drillers and Toolpushers nowadays? Most of them have never even SEEN a manual Derrick, never mind worked one. Don't even get me started on manual Tongs .........
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Yep I agree - just agreed with my boss to run off 25% of a Nabors crew. Promoted R'bouts to floormen, local labour, very good. Expat labour, ****. Of course there are loads of people about at the moment. That will all change next year, all ready is starting.

As for Drilling Engineers - if I had a buck for every so called drilling engineer that doesn't know what a water bushing is or how to calculate torque with doubled up make up line, I would be a millionaire - now we could really get stuck into that......... another forum and another time.
 
Blueboatman said:
Or as someone else described it ''An engineer will do for a fiver what a mechanic will do for £50''--Because the engineer has the skills to do more than keep swapping parts new for old.
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I thought it was originally 'an engineer can do for a tanner what any fool can do for a bob' but that doesn't allow for infalation or decimalisation!
 
A a chemist I worked for many years with engineers in industrial situations. One such engineer complained that his company car engine was missing. On inspection this chemist found a duff HT lead, and replaced it with 2.5mm twin and earth cable so he could drive to a garage to have the car fixed properly. ( It was a company car so it would cost him nothing)
Two months later he complained that the radio whinned, and on inspection he still had the 2.5mm T& E fitted!
I have limited my opinions regarding engineers, to the fact that if they are unable to fix something, then they are not using a bigger enough hammer
 
puddock said:
You think SubSea Engineers are bad? What about your so called Drillers and Toolpushers nowadays? Most of them have never even SEEN a manual Derrick, never mind worked one. Don't even get me started on manual Tongs .........
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Manual tongs and the spinning chain . . . . those were the days, when men were men and no self-respecting toolpusher could count beyond eight due to missing fingers . . .

It said Field Engineer on my business card then, took me a grand total of three years on the job training to reach those dizzy heights.

'Yestrday I couldent spell engneer, now I are one"

- W
 
A Skillfull Contriver

No wonder there is no agreement, look at the definition from Apple Dictionary

engineer |ˌenjəˈni(ə)r|
noun
a person who designs, builds, or maintains engines, machines, or public works.
• a person qualified in a branch of engineering, esp. as a professional : aeronautical engineer.
• the operator or supervisor of an engine, esp. a railroad locomotive or the engine on an aircraft or ship.
• a skillful contriver or originator of something : the prime engineer of the approach.
verb [ trans. ]
design and build (a machine or structure) : the men who engineered the tunnel.
• skillfully or artfully arrange for (an event or situation) to occur : she engineered another meeting with him.
• modify (an organism) by manipulating its genetic material : [as adj., with submodifier ] ( engineered) genetically engineered plants.
ORIGIN Middle English (denoting a designer and constructor of fortifications and weapons; formerly also as ingineer): in early use from Old French engigneor, from medieval Latin ingeniator, from ingeniare ‘contrive, devise,’ from Latin ingenium (see engine ); in later use from French ingénieur or Italian ingegnere, also based on Latin ingenium, with the ending influenced by -eer .
 
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