Call yourself an engineer?

Seems I am not alone! I get really (I mean really!) peed off with this countries attitude to the profession. I took over 7 years to qualify as a Chartered Mechanical Engineer and the guy who came to fix my shower (under warantee!) spent 3 months training and is called an engineer because he knows how to swap parts to see what is busted. If you tell someone at a dinner party you are an "engineer" they take you for a mechanic.
In Europe, or even the US it's different. Thats why I have spent most of my working life outside the UK working on contract to Naval Architects and Designers in several other industries where I could get a decent rate of pay. As the latter years of my "career" saw me operating as a project manager on superyacht projects I usually say "boatbuilder" when asked. It's just easier to explain...
 
I am one (specifically a marine engineer) according to my internationally recognised qualification for both steam and motor ships. I was to late to get charted status without going back to college to gain a degree etc. with a young family and mortgage that wasn't going to happen. With a chief's ticket I automatically had IEng status, does it make me any better engineer, no, nor would I earn any more money because of it. I have the qualifications and got to the top of my chosen profession, but I could not have achieved the dizzy heights without getting my hands dirty.
Rgds
Bob
 
When I becme a self-employed consultant, my C.Eng qual was important to my clients in helping them to win contracts for EU work. It kept me in demand, mind you, I had to keep coming up with the results - whatever they promised to the end user, I had to deliver. Made for some interesting contracts!

And yes, I did specify what could & could not be done prior to the tenders, but most clients simply promised whatever they thought the end user would buy. It then became hard work to identify what the end user actually needed & sell that to them in spite of the promises they had bought.

Fixing bikes is more fun & less demanding. And a nicer class of people.
 
Hi Bob

You don't get that many double barrelled Chiefs nowadays.
I'm only "motor' certified as the last time I saw a steam plant was when I was a cadet with Shell.

However, I just wanted to say how true your signature line is... Brilliant!:D
 
Unlike more civilised parts of the world the term engineer is not protected/regulated in this country, anyone can call themselves an engineer. I suspect there is a correlation between countries with a good industrial base and respect for professional engineers.
The person who fixes your engine is not an engineer, he is a mechanic. The person who designed your engine is an engineer.
To suggest that an engineer who can't repair something is not a real engineer is nonsense, that is what mechanics are for. You wouldn't expect a mechanic to be able to design what he repairs, that is not his job.
 
I dont think there is a single skill called "an engineer".

I used to employ them in numbers and I quickly learned there were all sorts of flavours. I had a few with first class degrees and they were particularly good for research type work but useless for maintaining machinery. Had some who had just done an apprenticeship and tech college who were maintenance. But give them something to calculate and mostly they were lost. had electronic ones who didnt seem to live on the same planet as the rest of us, and engineering managers who without exception were brilliant at delivering results - by all sorts of unofficial means. But none of the aforementioned were any good at keeping their paperwork in order which wasnt a great help with all the pressure vessel regs , etc, so for that we had another type of engineer who could write and file.

What I'm getting at is that engineers training and background has to fit the job they do. It's not really a profession - it's a skill set. It requires people who think and solve problems.

And no, the oiks in the toolroom operating lathes etc were not engineers because the job they did was not engineering. It was machine operating.

And writing as a chap with a couple of degrees, the engineers that most impressed me were the one who had done apprenticeships and tech college and could mostly solve any practical problem I gave them. What bits of paper they had I dont know except for one, a brilliant guy, who I know for sure had none!
 
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Fixing bikes is more fun & less demanding. And a nicer class of people.

Nice one Searush! We seem to have been on parallel career tracks. I started in Aerospace, graduated to Weapon Systems and then went entirely Marine. I always found that the nearer I got to the "coal face" the nicer the people were. Now I am a retired Curmugeon and just occasionally fix things for people I like it even more!
 
An engineer? who can truly prove their competence? surley ships engineering officer who holds a certificate of competence.....
 
Sharkbait said:
Where did Fred Dibnah (Television presenter, Steeplejack and Engineer) stand in the scheme of things, referred to himself as a "Back Street Mechanic"
Click to expand...

NOW there's a guy whose skills, knowledge & determination I admired. And his attitude towards planners & elfin safety! All those years as a steeplejack & demolition expert, back garden mining engineer & steam engine builder without any accidents - and the paper pushers tried to say he wasn't safe!
 
Question is...
Would you rather have
A) a qualified engineer on the case, who has the paper qualifications but who happens to be pretty mediocre
B)Someone with all the relevant experience, who is very capable in the task you require to be done but has no degree


or (the star of the show)
C) Mr Godbless Okuri who graduated from Lagos University with honours and can print his certs off for you in any colour scheme you wish............
 
Technicians and engineers are worlds apart - the only problem is that those who don't understand the difference and think that the person who turns up to repair their tv, boiler, washing machine is an engineer as that is what they call themselves believe this is what an engineer is.
As part of my CS qualification I had to have a first aid certificate - should I call myself a doctor? to me its the same. Can't wait to get YM - what could I call myself then - Admiral?
technicians are technicians and there is nothing wrong with being one and they should reflect and be proud of that.
 
gordmac said:
Unlike more civilised parts of the world the term engineer is not protected/regulated in this country, anyone can call themselves an engineer. I suspect there is a correlation between countries with a good industrial base and respect for professional engineers.
The person who fixes your engine is not an engineer, he is a mechanic. The person who designed your engine is an engineer.
To suggest that an engineer who can't repair something is not a real engineer is nonsense, that is what mechanics are for. You wouldn't expect a mechanic to be able to design what he repairs, that is not his job.
Click to expand...

While I understand your statement, would you suggest that someone who maintains, trouble fixes, modifies and fixes electro-pnuematic PLC controlled machinery is just a mechanic??.. If that is the case I will go back to being a boatbuilder - far higher status...(less money!)
 
Interesting thread! I've never really ben able to put my finger on exactly what makes an "engineer" - which is something of an embarassment, as I am one!

I agree that the term "engineer" has been hijacked by everyone and his dog in the UK - whch I'm pretty certain is a bad thing. Perhaps not entirely for the reasons one might imagine either! Clearly the "telecommunications Engineer" who digs holes to plant telegraph poles in will have a very different set of skills from the "Telecommunications engineer" that designs communications satellites! Generally, it's the highly qualified chartered engineers that get peeved about the guy who digs the telegraph pole holes using the same title. However, in doing so, we are in danger of loosing loads of job titles that had some standing in their own right. We used to have millers, turner, fitters, fabricators, mechanics... it would be a pity to loose them all into the one great pot called "engineer".

To my mind, to be an engineer must involve some creative input. I consider myself an "amateur" mechanic. I happen to like it, but it's not what I get paid for. My car is 20 years old and getting on for a quarter of a million miles. I do all my own maintenance. That said, I've seen plenty of good mechanics and they have a different skill set to me. The speed and dexterity with which a good mechanic works is an utter joy to behold. A good mechanic can do a job in half the time that I would take and get half as messy.

I have a lathe and I can use it, up to a point, likewise a welder (pretty much essential when your 20 year old car is Italian!) but I've worked with "proper" turners and "proper" welders on the shop floor and I'm in no doubt whatsoever that I'll never be able to hold a candle to them in their respective fields. That said, my basic appreciation of what they do is a big help in doing my "day job".

I think one big difference is when it comes to the level of responsibility. When you've got the very expensive prototype sitting there about to do its crash test, and the MD asks if it will pass (always a tricky one!) it tends to be the "engineer" (in the sense that I'd understand the term!) who is left to make that judgement.

As other have said, paper qualifications and membership of an institution is something that sees to be generally accepted, but I'm wary of using that as a yardstick because I know that the likes of Stephenson probably wouldn't have got into the IMechE today! In addition, I know plenty of CEng "professionals" who are sadly lacking in the ability to design or create anything except paper!

I frequently permit myself a wry chuckle at a conversation I had when I cought my car and discovered that it had been a write-off. In my discussions with the insurers the girl on the other end of the phone told me I'd have to get an "Engineer" to look at it and assess it. I told her that I was a Chartered Mechanical Engineer and asked if that would do. "Sorry", she said, chirpily, "You'd have to be a "Qualified motor Engineer".

Different folks, different strokes, I guess!

Finally, I love the following definition (which I think was Colin Chapman, but I could easily be wrong)!

"Any idiot can build a bridge that stays up, but it takes an engineer to build a bridge that only JUST stays up"!
 
gordmac said:
Unlike more civilised parts of the world the term engineer is not protected/regulated in this country, anyone can call themselves an engineer. I suspect there is a correlation between countries with a good industrial base and respect for professional engineers.
The person who fixes your engine is not an engineer, he is a mechanic. The person who designed your engine is an engineer.
To suggest that an engineer who can't repair something is not a real engineer is nonsense, that is what mechanics are for. You wouldn't expect a mechanic to be able to design what he repairs, that is not his job.
Click to expand...

I would have thought that the person that designed the engine was a DESIGN ENGINEER, and the person who initially built the prototype would be an ENGINEER. Indeed the person who maintains it would be a mechanic...
 
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