Cable Ferry Collision in Sweden

I agree the OP has no choice but to put this down to experience.

I am surprised, though, by the assumption that every feature and hazard will be on the chart. That is especially so for commercial electronic charts, but even those issued by national hydrographic agencies are only a guide to what is out there. They can never be comprehensive (indeed, a chart by definition is only partial - a selective representation/interpretation of reality - a 1:1 scale chart with everything on it is not only impossible but useless), and they can never be fully up to date.
 
jbweston said:
By way of an aside, yellow ferries are free to use for vehicles and foot passengers (at least every one I've been on was free). That has an enormous economic benefit for island communities where people can commute to school or work, get deliveries from towns, visit sporting and cultural events and friends, etc. at no cost.
Click to expand...
This is often true, as the state owned ferry company’s vessels are usually yellow. For ferries run by cities and municipalities there is mostly a charge, as these are part of the public transport systems.
The cable ferry that the OP was unfortunate to get involved with is however run by a private business, despite being yellow.
The service to Waxholm fortress only runs during the summer months, a return ticket is 100 krona.
 
Last edited:
jbweston said:
There are an enormous number of yellow ferries in Sweden. Many are of the are roll-on roll-off free floating vessels (ie not line ferries), but there are a lot of line ferries too. If someone had seen only the former type then a line ferry might come as a surprise. Which of course is why they have warning signs on the shore and on the ferry, and flashing beacons.

By way of an aside, yellow ferries are free to use for vehicles and foot passengers (at least every one I've been on was free). That has an enormous economic benefit for island communities where people can commute to school or work, get deliveries from towns, visit sporting and cultural events and friends, etc. at no cost. Compare that to the exhorbiant cost of (for example) travelling on the Isle of Wight ferries that is a serious economic barrier for those living on the Island or wanting to visit it for business.
Click to expand...
Ref the "serious economic barrier". I don't know what happens down there, but in Scotland we have road equivalent tariff (RET), which means that the ferry charges for vehicles is roughly the same as the cost would be, if driving over the same distance on a road.
 
LittleSister said:
I agree the OP has no choice but to put this down to experience.

I am surprised, though, by the assumption that every feature and hazard will be on the chart. That is especially so for commercial electronic charts, but even those issued by national hydrographic agencies are only a guide to what is out there. They can never be comprehensive (indeed, a chart by definition is only partial - a selective representation/interpretation of reality - a 1:1 scale chart with everything on it is not only impossible but useless), and they can never be fully up to date.
Click to expand...
A truism of mapping and cartography is that the map is NOT the territory. All maps are representations of the territory, using conventional symbols and abstracting information that is relevant to the application. You only have to look at a road map, an OS map and a chart of the same area to see how maps for different purposes abstract and represent information in different ways.

A further point is that a map (or chart) should be checked against what the user actually encounters! It's a common situation that a car satnav doesn't always have the current road layout; roundabouts at new housing developments are often slow to be added. In that case, we all use road signs and visual clues to navigate to a place where the satnav matches reality!
 
LittleSister said:
I am surprised, though, by the assumption that every feature and hazard will be on the chart. That is especially so for commercial electronic charts, but even those issued by national hydrographic agencies are only a guide to what is out there.
Click to expand...
True, but I can’t help thinking that whoever produced the OP’s electronic chart made a sloppy job in omitting the fact that it is a cable ferry.
 
BabaYaga said:
True, but I can’t help thinking that whoever produced the OP’s electronic chart made a sloppy job in omitting the fact that it is a cable ferry.
Click to expand...
I always work on the assumption that electronic maps / charts are produced by nerds in California or elsewhere with no understanding of cartography or hydrography.

On the west coast of Scotland I "discovered" a rock with 2 metres or less in an anchorage. It was not shown on the nice coloured chartlet in the latest edition of the pilot guide, proudly produced with the aid of digital cartography according to the blurb. However, reference to the early hand drawn CCC guide (the old blue hardback book) and individual CCC anchorage charts did show it.

Where I lived in Orkney friends' car GPS maps showed a road that had been disused and grassed over as part of a field umpteen years before, and did not show an actual road that had been in use for those umpteen years. Farm names were given the prominence of villages and an important village was not named. One afternoon a car arrived in my drive at the end of a single track road looking for the Stones of Stenness using the car GPS. He was in the correct parish, just, but about three miles from his destination. Driver error or cartography?

Edit - Google Maps was, perhaps still is, missing an (admittedly uninhabited) Orkney island.
 
Last edited:
srm said:
I always work on the assumption that electronic maps / charts are produced by nerds in California or elsewhere with no understanding of cartography or hydrography.
Click to expand...
Sounds like a sensible attitude.
However, from a consumers perspective, should we not be allowed to expect something better?
My understanding is that the OP says in post #1 that Garmin has confirmed that the cable ferry is not on the chart.
How difficult would it have been to get this piece of information right? Linked is an excerpt from the authorized chart, the words are even in English!
vaxholm utsnitt.jpeg
 
BabaYaga said:
However, from a consumers perspective, should we not be allowed to expect something better?
Click to expand...
At an early stage of my career, I had access to the UK Hydrographic Offices in Taunton and have seen the scale of the operation and amount of work that went in to compiling an Admiralty chart. While I agree entirely with the above I would be very surprised to see a commercial enterprise offering anything near an equivalent standard of quality control.
Compare the cost of national hydrographic products for a given area against those of commercial digital charts. The commercial products are significantly cheaper, but as the saying goes, "you get what you pay for".
 
Sticky Fingers said:
There are quite a few chain ferries in the UK, they do to be treated with caution.

Cowes (intermittent function!)
R Fal
R Dart
Poole harbour Sandbanks

I guess if the OP had never seen one before then it’s maybe understandable that the mistake was made. Think he was lucky to get away with no worse damage.
Click to expand...
Don't forget the three chain ferries at Torpoint. That appear to leave at random times just to snag any passing yacht.

Love there Restricted in Ability to Manoeuvre signs and lights even though they do head off to Falmouth from time to time for servicing.
 
Sandy said:
Don't forget the three chain ferries at Torpoint. That appear to leave at random times just to snag any passing yacht.

Love there Restricted in Ability to Manoeuvre signs and lights even though they do head off to Falmouth from time to time for servicing.
Click to expand...
Yes, this wasn’t supposed to be an exhaustive list of course.
 
I get to wonder how offen Garmin update there charts ,
below is the entrance to a Netherlands we entered the other day ,
as you can see the buoyage channel goes over the shallows the white area which is marked 6 to 8 mts has only a mts or so over it , anyone thinking there plenty to cutting the corner would be in trouble.
in reality any of us sailing anywhere using these charts are sailing bind ,
what are we paying for ? Not safe reliable for sure .
 

Attachments

  • 9109B65F-755B-4D61-9AFA-C02FD22288CF.png
    9109B65F-755B-4D61-9AFA-C02FD22288CF.png
    314.6 KB · Views: 24
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top