Buying the boat is the easy bit....

[skyflyer]

As a complete newbie to boat ownership and was about to dip a toe in the water but now having second thoughts. What is the point of buying a yacht if you cant find anywhere to keep her?

Unfortunately I live about as far from the sea as is possible, so we need a boat that is comfortable to live aboard a few nights at a time - and that means four of us sometimes five.

equally unfortunately I dont work conventional hours, Mon-Fri etc, so bareboat charter is nigh impossible other than one week of annual leave each year maybe! - the whole point of ownership was to have been "got a few days off, forecast is good, let's go.."

But I am rapidly finding out that the boat purchase is the easy bit compared to finding a mooring or berth - unless you want to pay sky high charges of course for the very top end marinas! (£250/m pa for a a swinging mooring? Maybe I should have done more research!)

I can put my name down on a waiting list but that will be four years or thereabouts without much opportunity to sail.

Now - this isnt simply a whinge! The point of posting is that - as always - there must be many of you who have been there, done that and got the t-shirt. How did you manage? What was your strategy to keep afloat until such time as your number came up? Did you bide your time or get a mooring somewhere less popular and steadily move closer to your desired location year by year?

All input gratefully received. Sympathy not expected or required!

Cheers

G

 

[Chrissie]

What about a yacht share? it also means cost, repair and maintenance share, so a much more economic way of getting into boat ownership. There are the big outfits that do it, with a big shiny newish boat, with costs to match and there are smaller concerns, based arround one boat and three or four other owners. One of the best bits is that the boats are usually kept in a nice marina for round the clock access.

 

[prv]

Yep, that's life. Especially on the South Coast where I live and work.

If you live "as far from the sea as is possible", surely it doesn't make much difference where you keep the boat and you can pick somewhere cheap?

In my case the answer was to go into partnership with my Dad, share the boat, and do all the initial restoration (rotten deck cores, flooded engine, etc etc) and ongoing maintenance (varnishing wooden spars etc) in exchange for him paying the mooring fees. He's got more cash than I have, and despite being retired is not interested in spending time looking after a boat. He's happy to pay the bills in exchange for stepping onto a fully-serviced boat when he fancies a sail and handing it back when he's done. So far it's working pretty well.

We also got a boat that's happy on a drying berth, which is cheaper than a deep-water one in a posh marina.

Pete

 

[skyflyer]

@Chrissie:Yacht share might be a good idea - unless it requires you to pre-book your week or days afloat several weeks ahead. On the other hand beggars cant be choosers - it woulkd work whilst we groaned our way up the wiating list! Ads in the mags to find them I suppose?

@prv: I am dad, I have the money (well, more than my son!) and I am the technical one. I have already spent a lifetime (it sometimes seems) helping my son redtore his 1970 VW campervan. Plus SWMBO isnt interested in watching varnish dry, as it were!

I'm not sure its much cheaper anywhere else to be honest although waiting lists may be shorter!

 

[prv]

I wasn't suggesting that you do exactly the same as me, just observing that there are more ways to get afloat than "1. buy boat outright, 2. put in nearest MDL marina".

It's definitely cheaper just about anywhere than in the Solent, as the non-Solent sailors never tire of reminding us when the subject comes up

Pete

 

[MASH]

The price you've quoted sounds more like a marina rate than a swinging mooring. (well, almost) I'd say you're looking at the wrong place - where is this rip-off? Hamble? Cowes? I live about as far from the sea as is possible too, which means that the S coast, Suffolk/Essex rivers and Severn/Wales are all about the same distance away. The S coast is renowned for its prices, the Severn for its tides and the E coast rivers for their beauty.
They'll also be a whole lot cheaper.
Are you ex-services by any chance?

 

[sighmoon]

Where are you and where have you been looking?

In some places you can lay your own mooring, or pay someone to do it for you. This is loads cheaper than buying a maintained mooring owned by someone else. You can normally buy one in situe for £300 - £700. If you pay someone to maintain it for you, it'll cost not much more than £100 p/a

Another alternative might be a yacht club. You might have to help paint pontoons once per year for the privelege, but you can get cheap moorings that way.

 

[Achillesheel]

Once you have decided where you want the boat, and you know what you want (or rather, at this stage, what the boat needs) by way of mooring, you simply get on the phone and speak to as many people as possible who can help. We did this, spent the first year on a temporarily vacant mooring, the second on a swinging mooring which was difficult to get to, but then came to the top of a waiting list for a super spot, and have been there ever since.

 

[AlistairM]

I feel your pain!!

I felt it nessasary to reply to this one as I am of the exact same thinking, and this does strike a particular cord. I live in South Wales, and have the bristol channel at my disposal, with that in mind I wouldnt really expect to have to travel very far but...

Cardiff Bay off limits - Marina too exspensive, yacht clubs almost the same by the time you have paid membership and got a mooring. Oh and not allowed to purchase a "plot" and sink you own.

Barry - Only has a yacht club, see above.

Porthcawl - Hmm not really any facility as such

Swansea - Same situation as Cardiff.

I cant believe this is restricted to just the two of us, I wonder how many other people are out there that are put off owning a boat just by the fact that they cant keep it anywhere. Sailing is not supposed to be an exclusive sport though I beg to differ on the subject of ownership.

All that said non of this has stopped me from actually sailing its just at the kindness of others, I further my experiance, not by being able to come and go as I please.

 

[nathanlee]

How did you manage?

I can't speak for the South Coast, but there's certainly no problem finding a mooring in the North West. Plenty of friendly, small yacht clubs that have moorings and launch facilities (lots of clubs dry sail all winter, using the club tractor to put boats in daily), and there's also cheap boatyards and marinas. None of them full, so far as I know.

It's not the first time I've read about sparse moorings though. Is it really that bad down South?

 

[john_morris_uk]

As others have said, you can easily spend lots of money owning a boat, but you don't have to. Our mooring (on a nice river, with lots of nice sailing nearby, deepwater) costs in the order of magnitude you quoted ie £250 for a 40 foot boat for the WHOLE YEAR. £250/m per annum is marina fees - and if you just phone the 'moorings available' ads you can get quoted some silly prices. Up the river from us there is a company that charges something over £1200 for a mooring when identical moorings on the same bit of river through the local club cost less than £150 per annum.

Its a real conundrum for some of us boat owners. I want to tell everyong that you don't have to be super rich to have a boat and go sailing, but there is a danger that supply and demand would make advertising some of the cheap moorings available rather more costly. Actually and thinking about this, it might not - lots of people seem to be happy to pay their marina fees and just use the boat as a floating holiday cottage and never actually go sailing. In fact some people never seem to actually visit their boat either - but I digress.

If Devon is accessible to you, there are lots of options that you can explore for reasonably priced moorings. I suspect that the same applies to lots of other areas of the country. Cheap means no fancy shower blocks and loos, and you will need to get a dinghy out to get to your boat, but its the way sailing was done for years. I quite like getting the dinghy out to go to our boat. Furthermore its arguably kinder on the yacht to keep it on a mooring - no fenders rubbing the sides and no surge on the lines in bad weather.

For the person who said S Wales is hopeless, try looking at moorings on some of the smaller rivers. The scenery might not be up to much, and Briton Ferry (sp) etc are rather muddy and inaccessible, but the moorings are cheap. You need to get in with the local clubs as once you are out at sea it all looks the same.

One final point. We 'borrowed' our mooring for the first few years, paying the then owner for its use and then we bought it outright and now only pay ground rent and maintenance. Asking to use a mooring for a while is often quite easy. After you get known, its suprising what turns up.

 

[Victoria Sponge]

The East Coast is definitely a cheaper option than the south. There are swing moorings available if you can find them, at quite reasonable prices and the marinas are much cheaper. It took us ages and a fair bit of homework, to decide where to keep our boat. We've already moved around a fair bit and been in three different marinas and on a swing mooring. If you really want a boat, don't be put off.

 

[skyflyer]

Time to 'fess up the full picture then !

I live in Worcester but we are looking at Devon or Cornwall, which may sound mad but there are good reasons for that:

I learned down there and have done pretty much all my sea time down there; we have friends and relatives who live nearby (useful for a bit of respite!) who are keen to join us too. there is plenty of interest in the surrounding areas on dry land to provide alternative entertainment!

So yes - truth be told I could be at Gloucester in 30 minutes and Portishead in 70, but without wishing to cause offence to any keen Severn Estuary sailors, this is not "my thing" - my dearly beloved wants the picturesque craggy coastline with little coves and bays, etc etc! For us as a family this is about the whole experience, not the sailing technique - I wont be entering any races! South wales is a possibility I guess

The price quoted for a swinging mooring was from a very upmarket marina on the Dart if I recall correctly. £85 per ft per month to be precise. I expressed surprise also, saying that it seemed more like the cost of a marina berth and the nice lady told me "oh, but you have the use of the coffee shop and showers as well"!!!

We were up in Largs two days ago looking at a prospective purchase and if it had gone ahead I would have certaily considered keeping her up there for a season, despite the 6 hour drive - what a beautiful coastline that is!

Swinging moorings are available at Torpoint for up to 30' for around £1000 - but of course add the lift-in and out and winter storage to that makes clsoer on £1800 for the year.

G

(Not ex services, but professional aviator, yes!)

 

[ProDave]

I must reply being a newbie, so have just been through this.

We actually bought a boat with no thought at all, initially planning to use it as a trailer sailor. It was only when we started to drive around looking at all the different slipways that we realised it was much cheaper than I ever imagined to keep the boat on the water. Having launched and recovered once from a slipway I am glad we decided to keep her on the water. The hassle of launching every time you want to go sailing would have very soon lost it's appeal.

The key thing is where to keep the boat. Since the OP lives "as far as possible from the sea" I'm guessing anywhere between Oxfordshire and Nottinghamshire just about covers that. Perhaps he would tell us, as that may influence suggestions.

If I'm right about location, then you are 2 to 3 hours drive from the sea, and whichever way you go you will meet congestion and traffic jams.

Perhaps a better option may be to look at berthing the boat somewhere within a cheap flight from where you live? You can fly up here to Scotland (to Inverness) in just over an hour for usually less than £50, Then Nairn harbour has spaces at a price you will like and is a bus or taxi ride from Inverness airport.

Just a thought, there must be hundreds of places around the coast that you can easilly access and find cheap berthing for a boat.

As already suggested, look at yacht clubs or sailing clubs, that's where my boat is, and being in a club I think is great, especially for a beginner like me, as there are people in the club who are going to give us some own boat tuition, and we are doing a couple of shore based courses over this winter.

 

[skyflyer]

well, its not in the bag yet, but thanks to Chrissie it looks like there is an ideal 1/3 share in the right type and size of yacht that already has a mooring.

That will at least give us breathing space, the opportunity to develop our skills and probably a better insight into exactly which boat would be best for us when we eventually go the full ownership route.

 

[Chrissie]

Hey, thats lovely news, good luck, and enjoy

 

[Victoria Sponge]

well, its not in the bag yet, but thanks to Chrissie it looks like there is an ideal 1/3 share in the right type and size of yacht that already has a mooring.

That will at least give us breathing space, the opportunity to develop our skills and probably a better insight into exactly which boat would be best for us when we eventually go the full ownership route.

Go for it. There's always doing flotilla or bareboat somewhere like Turkey, to consider as well. We have our own boat in the UK, but when we fancy a change of sailing (and some guaranteed good weather) we go to Turkey.

 

[Zagato]

The obvious way to get your costs down is to get a bilge keeler and a half tide mooring, you will be looking at £500 instead of £1000. You can also keep the boat in for two years and take it out properly on the third for any major work (many people keep there boats in all year round and it saves on winter storage etc and you get some lovely winter sails - Chrissie is one I believe ) Don't be put off by people saying it will takes years for a mooring to come up. My father got one in Falmouth within a year of waiting and I got one this year in Itchenor after people said it was unlikely you will get one first time around. I think a lot of people don't bother putting their name down as they are put off

I hope you buy your dream boat eventually. I thought there would be some nice sailing on the south coast of Wales

 

[john_morris_uk]

I've sent you a personal message with some hints for where you might look for a reasonably priced mooring (deepwater) on the Tamar. Look under your name on the top right of the screen and it should say something about pm's or 'personal messages' and how to access them.

Regards

John

 

[skyflyer]

Bilge keel was really tempting for all sorts of reasons, but given the distance we have to travel I dont want to arrive on the quayside and have to sit in the car for 4 to 5 hours waiting for the tide!

If I lived half an hour away it would be a different matter!