Buying + refurbishing a run down boat

GrahamM376 said:
You're correct. We had a twin keel 346 for just under 4 years and I didn't like it much.

It was directionally unstable, as YM commented in used boat test with a fin keel version, they say "the boat would change direction for no apparent reason". If left on autohelm, every time wind speed increaded/decreased by just a couple of knots, it would change course faster than the pilot (AH5000 inboard) could catch it. Looking back at wake, it was nearly always a lazy S.
Galley is also a pain with very little headroom.
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Thank you very much GrahamM376 for confirmation what I wrote earlier on this thread.

What I wrote:-
"I agree that when in the groove on straight course, she sails very well. My problem is controlling the boat so she doesn't charge off in any direction just because I want to blow my nose. The boat is very definitely a two handed boat. I will wait for spring to decide because I will fit my Aries Vane gear which I hope will solve the problem."

All last year I thought it was me. I was reluctant to blame the boat because I had only sailed her for a few month. She is definitely unstable. I agree with GrahamM376 especially when single handed. It requires a hand on the wheel all the time or she will charge off in any direction like a rabbit.

I even tried it with the Auto-helm 3000 connected but even altering the sensitivity didn't help. Actually, if the autohelm didn't help I wonder why I think the Aries will. Anyway, I will go through with the plan and test the boat with the Aries doing the steering. If it doesn't work I will mothball the boat and buy a replacement.

And of course, standing on the seats to get past the wheel to access the winches puts me in line of fire from the boom during a critical time. Nope, I'm with Graham, I don't like the boat.
 
If Pondweed is still interested in buying and refurbing a run down boat it might be an idea to check out this months issue of Practical Boat Owner

Briefly - they bought a knackered Snapdragon 23 on ebay at a cost of £510

They have been working on it for a year. Some highlights of that year

"We spent 2 months removing every one of the 62 deck fittings...occasionally resorting to the brute force of an angle grinder"

"Removing the boat's thick, flaky paint took 2 months of battling with paint stripper, scrapers and sanders.."

"The grey-blue gel coat on the deck molding was in a bad way, but months of filling, fairing and sanding have left it smooth enough to paint"

As far as I can see, after one year of work they have an unpainted shell with no interior fittings, no engine, no rigging, no sails and no instruments. Condition of the old deck gear TBA.

Yard costs appear to have been taken care of by a friendly boatyard, but you would obviously pay - over £1k would be likely if you needed facilities.

I reckon if you were to restore that snapdragon yourself, you'd be looking at north of £10k by the time you were finished.

There seem to be a lot of people who enjoy time in the yard, bringing older boats back to their full glory. I'm sure it is a noble pursuit and very satisfying but it is NOT a cheap way into sailing..
 
obmij said:
As far as I can see, after one year of work they have an unpainted shell with no interior fittings, no engine, no rigging, no sails and no instruments.
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I don't disagree with your overall point, but I'm not sure the PBO wreck is a good example. They're doing way more to that boat than is sensible, in order to write articles about it.

Pete
 
obmij said:
There seem to be a lot of people who enjoy time in the yard, bringing older boats back to their full glory. I'm sure it is a noble pursuit and very satisfying but it is NOT a cheap way into sailing.
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Not cheaper but some people don't have sufficient cash to buy a decent boat outright whereas they can afford a cheaper one then update out of income over a longer period. Also gives a good excuse for avoiding decorating, cutting the grass etc.:)
 
When I was a lad, the only way into boat ownership "cheaply" was to start from scratch and build one with plywood. Very few made it to completion. Today because of immortal GRP there is a growing armada of abandoned boats which IMO is a better and much cheaper option into first boat ownership.
 
obmij said:
There seem to be a lot of people who enjoy time in the yard, bringing older boats back to their full glory. I'm sure it is a noble pursuit and very satisfying but it is NOT a cheap way into sailing..
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Some of them never seem to go to sea. I think that they enjoy the work more than sailing! Nothing wrong with that except I think I am turning into one of them - got to watch myself!
 
BlueTwo said:
When I was a lad, the only way into boat ownership "cheaply" was to start from scratch and build one with plywood. Very few made it to completion. Today because of immortal GRP there is a growing armada of abandoned boats which IMO is a better and much cheaper option into first boat ownership.
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I remember when I was quite small looking at a plywood motor boat with my Dad. It was amazing! It was something like 30' long, amateur built of quite thin ply - perhaps 10mm. There wasn't a fair surface in it - every surface was "wavy", being far too thin for the spans between frames. But the REALLY amazing thing was that there were two massive truck engines in it; Scammell, I think! We all reckoned that if they'd ever been started, the whole thing would have shaken itself to pieces very quickly.

But there were plenty of quite respectable plywood home-constructed boats around; then as now, succesful completion depended on having a place to build it and plenty of spare time. Sadly, plywood construction has a finite life-span, and is difficult, if not impossible, to keep going past a certain point.
 
what started of as a plan to buy a sorry looking boat for funny money, is now looking more at spending more time saving up for £5-10k and looking for a boat with adequate exterior fittings and deteriorated interior.

i enjoy carpentry with a passion and would be very happy to spend a year building the interior.

from looking around forums, it seems it is likely that a boat with a deteriorated interior is likely to have exterior issues aswell, but not necessarily.


Looking on sale listing around on internet, iv spotted a lot of persons which seems likely candidates for such a task.
I like the look of the cockpit/interior proportions.

Iv spotted quite a few pearson vanguards in the £5-10k range, though most of them seem to be in america.
from looking at forum discussions it seems many experienced boat goers are against them.

what are your views on the pearsons?

alothough i have the dog, if the east coast buyers boat market seems good. i may consider getting a flight over there with the dog, and hitching down the east coast, visiting marinas.
 
Boats are cheap in the US because there is no market for old run down boats. Few Americans are interested in doing up old things when there is plenty of choice of good functioning boats.

However, this does not represent bargains for European buyers. Most of the boats, even if you did manage to repair them could not be used in the EU as they do not meet the RCD. Moreover if you did try to import you have the cost of shipping (or getting the boat to a condition fit to sail across the Atlantic) and then pay duty and VAT - plus the cost of modifying to get it approved.
 
pond weed said:
and i also found this link on older boats, suitable for livaboard.

http://atomvoyages.com/planning/good-old-boats-list.html
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That is a US oriented list and very out of date, but there are a number of European boats on it. You would have no problem drawing up a similar list of European boats, many of which can be bought in good functioning order for less than £10k. Many people on this forum own such boats and some live on them permanently.

Much more sensible approach than buying a big old wreck which will forever be a big old wreck!
 
pond weed said:
I may consider getting a flight over there with the dog
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I have a JRT too and am thinking of doing this but will be doing the Appalachian trail on my unicycle. Presumably they just go as cabin baggage. Are you allowed another bag as well or do you have to pay extra for hold baggage?
 
If you don't want to do it in the UK then your original plan of looking around Greece / med was a good one. Quite a few boats there with owners who sailed them down from the UK but now can't sell them, can't face sailing them back and they are not worth transporting or paying a crew to do so.

An example of price pressure in the Med - Sunsail are unloading their 2001 fleet of Jenneau 30 footers. You have a choice of relatively new, professionally maintained (albeit well used) and well equipped boats at £15k, - before any negotiations start.

Neilsons - I think they just got rid of a load of Moody 31's at around 12k..
 
When I sailed around Florida there were hundreds of good cheap bargains. I was told that this was because, in USA, finance companies and banks will not finance anything over (say) 10 years old. Add to that when an owner moves from East coast to West coast (or even mythical Kansas) it's a long way. So cash and locality are king. Your dog is a problem though. Many Islands will not allow it to land because of rabies. You are OK in USA with the dog but you can't stay there for ever.
 
chinita said:
I have a JRT too and am thinking of doing this but will be doing the Appalachian trail on my unicycle. Presumably they just go as cabin baggage. Are you allowed another bag as well or do you have to pay extra for hold baggage?
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please take a camera :)


but as far as dogs on planes its a bit of a pain. they cant go with baggage because baggage get very cold.

there are stories of illegal immigrants climbing up landing gear and hiding in baggage compartment, and freezing to death.

some planes have specific pet storage, and you pay extra.


for long haul flights, i recomend a company called 'trail finders' (apologies if im not allowed to mention 3rd party companies o the forum). if you give them flexible flying dates, they are very good at finding the cheapest day, time and airports to fly.

i got a return to heathrow/NY with kuwait airlines for under £400 through them.



going to states for a boat was a consideration but in light of what some of you have said i probably wont.

It seems i have a great deal to learn of boating world regulations
 
I know there are a lot of unfinished projects out there but if you really want to give it a go and you are resonably handy go for it.
I refurbed an old J24, then built a ply day sailor and then wanted a proper sailing boat and bought a neglected Sigma 33 (but not so neglected that I could not sail it to Northern Ireland from Southampton and use it for a season).

I was able to haul the boat in September and relaunch the follolwing May if you check the link below you can see what is achieveable in about 8 months singlehanded and outside and for less than £1500 plus yard costs.
http://s1143.beta.photobucket.com/u...rary/?&_suid=13577646532950022680375988428314

Find a boat with the best rig, engine, sails and deck gear you can and just about everything else is fixable.

Best of luck
 
pond weed said:
going to states for a boat was a consideration but in light of what some of you have said i probably wont.

It seems i have a great deal to learn of boating world regulations
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Don't cross the USA off your list yet. It depends what you want to do after you get the boat. ´Forget Florida and the East coast. Inspect what is available on the West coast, California in particular has cheap boats. Unlike Florida it is easy to get away from California. Take the coastal route south in the prevailing winds down to Mexico where the living is cheaper than Europe and plenty of good labour if you need help to get your incredibly cheap boat up to snuff.

A year in Mexico at anchor for free among American ex-pats then off down the trade winds to the South Pacific where you can die of sex under a palm tree.

If you survive that, then on to New Zealand or Australia where you can sell the boat for a nice profit and fly home.

Raise your sights.
 
chinita said:
Wow. Was the £400.00 for you, the dog or both of you?
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nah that was just me. iv only had him 5 months, havnt flown with him yet.


Bluetwo:

that sounds like a very appealing adventure. iv hitchhiked some of the north eastern states but never got out west.
California is somewhere iv really wanted to go.

I do have a concern of running out of money. Though I can happily sustain myself while traveling, busking with the guitar.
If there are enough free anchorage's i could busk in touristy/upmarket areas.


a typical tourist visa is 3 months there. do you think that i comfortably long enough to buy a boat
 
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