Buying boat in Greece, from Sweden, how to deal with registration

[wvansl]

Hi!
So we are in the buying stage of a sailboat in Greece. (survey is being done next week). It will be my first boat. I'm from Sweden but work remotely and basically live in a motorhome full-time. The boat is in Greece and will stay in Greece, EU VAT paid.

I get confused about "boat/flag registration", I have a Dutch passport, my girlfriend is Swedish, and we own property in Sweden and work/have companies there. I asked on Swedish boat forums and it appears that for sailing boats under 12m (mine is 11m) there is no real registration. People just put on a Swedish flag and sail.
But in the Med, in Greece, you surely have to register somewhere official and get some kind of document no? Strangely enough, I find it hard to find good information on the internet about it.

I read that many people register their boat in Poland and sail under Polish flag since it is an easy online-only process, you don't have to live there or have anything todo with Poland, you just pay about 400eur and then it gets done.

Can somebody help explain how this now really works? Thanks very much!

 

[BabaYaga]

I asked on Swedish boat forums and it appears that for sailing boats under 12m (mine is 11m) there is no real registration. People just put on a Swedish flag and sail.
But in the Med, in Greece, you surely have to register somewhere official and get some kind of document no? Strangely enough, I find it hard to find good information on the internet about it.

I don't think you got correct information there.
Registration of leisure craft under 15 metres is not compulsory here, but as owner you can apply for registration of a smaller boat in Fartygsregistret, run by Transportstyrelsen (Swedish Transport Agency).
One possible obstacle is that you should be Swedish citizen or at least have residence here to do so and the boat should 'normally be kept here'. Its not quite clear to me what your status is.
These links give some information:
Registrering av båt - Transportstyrelsen
Utländska bolag och privatpersoner - Transportstyrelsen

 

[wvansl]

Thanks for the links, going to read more about it.
The boat will probably never be in Sweden, I don't have citizenship but I do have residence (personal number) of more than 10 years.

 

[Tranona]

There are many registers that are "open" that is will register boats for essentially anybody. This includes the British Registry, but most are designed for commercial craft and have requirements, particularly survey which make the process complicated and relatively costly so rarely used by small yacht owners. The added complication now is that the "good" ones like the British and Channel Islands ones are considered "third country" in Greece and currently do not have the same degree of free circulation within Greece, even if EU VAT paid as they did when UK was in the EU. Although this is against EU law, nearly 3 years on from Brexit they are still imposing restrictions on UK registered EU VAT paid boats. For the rest of the EU (and indeed just about the whole of the rest of the world) British registration is acceptable.

If you plan to stay in Greece then an EU registration such as Poland is best if you can get it. Otherwise British Part 1 is the best, but needs a "tonnage" survey, essentially a measurement and inspection of the boat to confirm that it exists. This is because British registry allows charges such as mortgages to be registered against the boat so the registry needs independent confirmation that the boat is what you say it is. This process typically adds about £1000 to the process for a boat outside the UK, but if you plan to go sailing long term to different places is a good investment.

The reason you can't find clear advice is because there are no easy answers. Registration is covered by international maritime law and basically is for commercial ships. Individual states run their own systems for their territories and some (like UK and Sweden) have simpler systems for yachts for their own citizens or residents, Others restrict registration to certain classes of people, yet others have "heavy" requirements related to equipment, who can skipper the boat and where it can be used. People like you don't "fit" easily into these systems so it is a question of finding a registry that is both acceptable and will accept you. Many people in a similar situation to you have found the Polish register suits them.

 

[BabaYaga]

If you are or would consider to become member of the Swedish Cruising Association (SXK) this link might also be of interest:
https://www.sxk.se/batliv/langfarder/dokument-och-byrakrati/batregistrering
They are authorized by the Swedish government to issue 'international certificates' for leisure craft. Although not formally an official register, it seems these certificates are generally accepted as proof of registration by foreign officials.

 

[vyv_cox]

What flag and registration does the boat carry now? If Greek already, leave it as it is. No doubt some bureaucracy will need to be overcome but once achieved this is by far your best option.

 

[Refueler]

In fact the Swedish Registration is NOT cut and dried as some state. Many boats here in Latvia and other Baltic States register in Sweden to get the International Certificate ... my recent purchase is in application stage via Swedish Cruising Association.

The procedure is simple : (Its better to go on the Swedish Language original pages and just right click to translate - as English pages are not complete).

1. Join Swedisch Cruising Association : English | Svenska Kryssarklubben
2. Wait for your Membership number.
3. Then fill in application for International Certificate. This can take a couple of months to process ...

Here's details further and why its NOT necessary to be resident in Sweden ...

International certificate | Svenska Kryssarklubben

Once that's done - you can then apply for Call Sign / MMSI etc. for any radio gear you have. But note that the website the Swedish Radio Org gives does not work - better to email to them.

With regard to Polish Reg'n ... therein lies a kick ... usually you need to employ an Agent to act for you ... making it quite expensive.

Hope this helps.

 

[Refueler]

I don't think you got correct information there.
Registration of leisure craft under 15 metres is not compulsory here, but as owner you can apply for registration of a smaller boat in Fartygsregistret, run by Transportstyrelsen (Swedish Transport Agency).
One possible obstacle is that you should be Swedish citizen or at least have residence here to do so and the boat should 'normally be kept here'. Its not quite clear to me what your status is.
These links give some information:
Registrering av båt - Transportstyrelsen
Utländska bolag och privatpersoner - Transportstyrelsen

Actually ... International certificate | Svenska Kryssarklubben

Not necessary to be Swedish Resident ....

Approx 50% of Swedish reg'd boats near me are not owned by Swedish residents - but Latvians.

Its also a path to get around Latvia's rule of not accepting a second hand boat that was not registered previously.

Latvia only accepts 'change of registry' or New boats onto its registry. Example my Conq38 was never registered in Sweden as far as we can determine. Latvian Registry refused my application stating that boat needed to be registered elsewhere. They advised to register via Swedish Register - then later apply again.

 

[Refueler]

Thanks for the links, going to read more about it.
The boat will probably never be in Sweden, I don't have citizenship but I do have residence (personal number) of more than 10 years.

Read my posts # 7 and 8 ......

 

[Refueler]

There are many registers that are "open" that is will register boats for essentially anybody. This includes the British Registry, but most are designed for commercial craft and have requirements, particularly survey which make the process complicated and relatively costly so rarely used by small yacht owners. The added complication now is that the "good" ones like the British and Channel Islands ones are considered "third country" in Greece and currently do not have the same degree of free circulation within Greece, even if EU VAT paid as they did when UK was in the EU. Although this is against EU law, nearly 3 years on from Brexit they are still imposing restrictions on UK registered EU VAT paid boats. For the rest of the EU (and indeed just about the whole of the rest of the world) British registration is acceptable.

If you plan to stay in Greece then an EU registration such as Poland is best if you can get it. Otherwise British Part 1 is the best, but needs a "tonnage" survey, essentially a measurement and inspection of the boat to confirm that it exists. This is because British registry allows charges such as mortgages to be registered against the boat so the registry needs independent confirmation that the boat is what you say it is. This process typically adds about £1000 to the process for a boat outside the UK, but if you plan to go sailing long term to different places is a good investment.

The reason you can't find clear advice is because there are no easy answers. Registration is covered by international maritime law and basically is for commercial ships. Individual states run their own systems for their territories and some (like UK and Sweden) have simpler systems for yachts for their own citizens or residents, Others restrict registration to certain classes of people, yet others have "heavy" requirements related to equipment, who can skipper the boat and where it can be used. People like you don't "fit" easily into these systems so it is a question of finding a registry that is both acceptable and will accept you. Many people in a similar situation to you have found the Polish register suits them.

Huh hummm ...

Swedish Registry does not require any survey whatsoever - is open to any person of EU status ..... see posts 7 and 8

Polish Registry is being pushed online but as I found out when I started the process - they try to get you to use an agent ... sorry - I don't need a pen-pusher and costs were silly.

 

[Refueler]

If you are or would consider to become member of the Swedish Cruising Association (SXK) this link might also be of interest:
https://www.sxk.se/batliv/langfarder/dokument-och-byrakrati/batregistrering
They are authorized by the Swedish government to issue 'international certificates' for leisure craft. Although not formally an official register, it seems these certificates are generally accepted as proof of registration by foreign officials.

Based on EU revision of their Registration guidelines.

 

[BabaYaga]

Actually ... International certificate | Svenska Kryssarklubben

Not necessary to be Swedish Resident ....

I think you may be mixing up two different things here.
To register a boat in Fartygsregistret (run by a state agency) you will normally have to be citizen or resident (which the OP seems to be, so a route worth exploring..).
To get an international certificate from SXK you must be member of this organisation, but you do not have to reside in Sweden. This might also be an option for the OP.

 

[Tranona]

Swedish Registry does not require any survey whatsoever - is open to any person of EU status ..... see posts 7 and 8

Polish Registry is being pushed online but as I found out when I started the process - they try to get you to use an agent ... sorry - I don't need a pen-pusher and costs were silly.

Where did I say that it did? I specifically said that it was a simplified system (like the SSR) which is not a register of title. I was explaining that British Part 1 requires a survey because it is a register of title and that a charge can be registered against the boat.

There are (as you well know, but others might not) 2 purposes for registration. The first is to indicate the flag state of the boat and the second is a register of title. Many states have only the second, but serves as the first, and others like the UK and Sweden have simple registers that satisfy just flag state recognition.

 

[Tranona]

Based on EU revision of their Registration guidelines.

Can you post a link to this?

 

[Cariadco]

Forget the UK registration, as you need to provide proof of residency, within the UK,

 

[wvansl]

In fact the Swedish Registration is NOT cut and dried as some state. Many boats here in Latvia and other Baltic States register in Sweden to get the International Certificate ... my recent purchase is in application stage via Swedish Cruising Association.

The procedure is simple : (Its better to go on the Swedish Language original pages and just right click to translate - as English pages are not complete).

1. Join Swedisch Cruising Association : English | Svenska Kryssarklubben
2. Wait for your Membership number.
3. Then fill in application for International Certificate. This can take a couple of months to process ...

Here's details further and why its NOT necessary to be resident in Sweden ...

International certificate | Svenska Kryssarklubben

Once that's done - you can then apply for Call Sign / MMSI etc. for any radio gear you have. But note that the website the Swedish Radio Org gives does not work - better to email to them.

With regard to Polish Reg'n ... therein lies a kick ... usually you need to employ an Agent to act for you ... making it quite expensive.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for this information, couple of questions:
- During this process of registration, is it possible to sail around (day trips) in Greece?
- How much does the registration cost and how long is it valid? Membership cost 500 sek (40 eur) but what about registration + any yearly registration fee? Do you know?

The Polish registration (through an agent) is about 500eur, one time.

 

[Tranona]

Forget the UK registration, as you need to provide proof of residency, within the UK,

No you do not if (as suggested) the boat is registered on Part 1. You only need a contact address in the UK. The SSR that you are referring to is indeed only available to residents, being a simplified form just to meet the flag state identification requirement.

 

[vyv_cox]

No you do not if (as suggested) the boat is registered on Part 1. You only need a contact address in the UK. The SSR that you are referring to is indeed only available to residents, being a simplified form just to meet the flag state identification requirement.

I recently renewed my Part 1 in order to change my address to France, where I now live. Not a problem to give my son's business address as a contact in UK.

 

[Refueler]

Can you post a link to this?

Already have ...

Read the links I gave .. its all down to dear old Spanish boats !!

 

[Refueler]

Thanks for this information, couple of questions:
- During this process of registration, is it possible to sail around (day trips) in Greece?
- How much does the registration cost and how long is it valid? Membership cost 500 sek (40 eur) but what about registration + any yearly registration fee? Do you know?

The Polish registration (through an agent) is about 500eur, one time.

Read the links - all is explained.

Latvian is about 500 euros for life ... but Swedish is peanuts and valid for 2yrs ... it would be longer than I expect to stay boating to spend same as Latvian amount to the Swedish