Buying a secondhand boat - offers? broker markup? relocating it?

[Richard10002]

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RF M44: This is interesting, but you don't reveal the big secret. How did you know that £120k was about right?

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I watched ybw.com for 3 years, whilst waiting for the time when I would have the money - not everyone has that amount of time.

Those boats asking over £130k remained on the market and I didnt see any evidence of them selling.

Those that reduced to under £130k, (£125K to £129,995), then sold within a reasonably short space of time, (a few months IIRC), as did those which started at under £130K, rather than being reduced.

Those that started with asking prices under £120K appeared to be snapped up almost immediately, within a few weeks, and one which was asking £109K had a sold sticker on it within a few days.

Age didnt seem to play a part, (they were only built between 1992 and 1996)

It therefore seemed fairly clear that £120K was a fair price for a fair boat.

If I was asking £109K for my boat, and someone offered anything less than the asking price, they would be wasting their time and, if they really wanted an M44, they would be back with the asking price pretty sharpish.

If I was asking £135K for it, and I got an offer of 10% less, I would be delighted and snap their hand off.

 

[Tranona]

With my economist hat on (sad nerd) these posts describe the market process. Boats that sell are neither under nor over priced. Transactions occur when the buyer is happy with the deal and the seller is equally happy. If either is unhappy the deal does not get done because this is a discretionary purchase (ie, nobody is forced to buy a boat). Price differentials in different regional markets usually arise because the buyers are in one market and the sellers in another. The difference reflects the cost of transferring the boat from one location to another. Hence Med boats are (generally) cheaper than in UK because buyers want to move them there. Also there may be surplus supply in one market, for example excess boats coming off charter fleets in the Med. The achieved price is known as the clearing price which reflects what the buyer is prepared to pay to get the boat where he wants it. If transport cost are £5k he will bid that amount less than for a comparable boat based where he wants it.

One of the difficulties in the boat market is that boats are not all the same (like eggs for example) and more importantly the range and quality of information about achieved prices is poor. Buyers and sellers therefore end up agreeing on a price that satisfies them The aggregate price of such transactions is the market price.

Having said all that I have only ever bought two boats (both of which I still have). The first I had coveted for some years and the price I paid was what I thought I could afford to satisfy my desire - no regrets. The second was bought on largely economic grounds ie it had over time to fit within the amount of money I was prepared to spend to own the asset get use out of it and recover the maximum when I move on but I have learned to love it

 

[gjgm]

good sense in that post.
The one really vital point is that you decide what the boat is worth to you. Who cares whether thats 100pct or 75pct of the asking price. Just remember that the boat is just another asset with a"reasonably" defined value. Yes, you may get lucky and get it way below the asking price, but if you were selling a really good boat would YOU just chuck it away cheap?
I reckon a good boat, sensibly priced in the right location,time of year etc will probably sell between 5-10pct below its asking.
So, my strong suggestion is look at a number of boats, draw up how YOU would value each of them (condition,year,added gear)- and then thats the price for you. You'll soon get a good feel for the values. If the seller doesnt agree, you ll have to reconsider or look for another. And if you keep having no success the conclusion must be that you are not paying the market price.
Personally, I dont think there is a great deal of hope in finding a great boat at a ridiculous price.
The economy.. well, who knows, looks a bit gloomy right now, but come Spring everyone gets excited rushing around the boatyards, and if there is a good boat about, thats the one everyone will prefer. Do you want to waste half the season arguing about a few % ?
One good comment I came across recently was concentrate on boats you can afford, meaning if you need 25pct off, maybe you should be looking at something else.
So, take your time, look at as many as you can,find one you want, and try to find a sensible meeting point. Bear in mind its probably only costing him a few hundred a month for storage, so why is he going to chuck away thousands.After you have seen a few boats, you really will know in what narrow range the price should be. Maybe you get it a little bit less, maybe you ll have to pay a little more to secure it.
I dont have alot of time for those who seem to think all boats for sale are massively overpriced and owned by desperados, and they ll never pay more than 75pct- they dont seem to buy many boats, either !

 

[gpascoe]

Golden Rule: Decide the amount you can afford, then buy something for 3/4 of that price. There will always be someting hidden away even if the seller acted in good faith.

Don't be bullied, there is plenty on the market, and you can take your time. Showing an interest isn't a contract (unless buying at an auction).

Know what you want to use it for - ie don't try to fit in with what the boat you have bought can manage, get one that can do what you want to do.

 

[gjgm]

sorry, but I think thats rubbish if you are serious about buying a boat, because you arent going to find a good one totally wrongly priced. If you want to look indefinitely and dont care too much what you buy, maybe you can find something at a good discount- but the idea is to get the boat isnt it, not the discount?
Looking back over the last year, I can think of those who put their boats up for sale at sensible, to sell prices. They sold quickly and close to asking. And I ve seen people who are far more interested in getting some big discount than they are in getting a good boat for a fair price. They still havnet bought.
You are presumably going to have the boat for some years,so concentrate on getting a boat you really want, and you ll always be happy with it, long after you wondered if it was worth a few more % or not. I cant see the thrill of knocking a few more % off lasting more then the first few weeks.

 

[gpascoe]

gigm - I wasn't talking about getting a discount, I was talking about what you think you can afford. I guess if this guy is a buyer with £120K to spare it isn't that big a deal either way. Just trying to warn him that boats are more expensive than you think. I bet if you buy something second hand for £120K there will be another 20 - 30K to spend on it.

Of course you buy what you want, and usually if you compare prices on the same model then the more expensive is likely the better condition. But...

I suppose the bottom line is caveat emptor.

 

[Brierley]

Wow! Thanks for all the fabulous advice /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

We have been to see more boats and it's definitely true that sellers can be very unrealistic, though sadly some of the sales are very reluctant so I can understand why they want to feel they are getting some recompense.

We now have a good idea of the market and we're off to see another boat this weekend. We are happy to pay a fair price (rather than trying to beat someone down to the absolute last penny) but so far, we haven't seen one that we are prepared to offer anywhere near the asking price. Two sellers have actually said to us that they are open to 'sensible but not ridiculous' offers - ironically, they were both priced at the top end of the market so it will be interesting to see if thay are still for sale in several months time.

It's also very true that you absolutely cannot go on photos - we thought we were going to see a pristine boat and it turned out the photos were taken over a year ago and she has been sadly neglected since then.

So the search continues, but it's quite good fun. It's fascinating seeing how people have done different things and made their own minor modifications on the same model of boat so we're getting lots of ideas of things we may want to do to our boat when we finally get her.

If you've got a digital camera, it's worth taking loads of pictures inside and out - it makes it much easier to compare different boats when you get home and it's given us more things to look out for on further boats that we see.

Thanks again - will keep you posted!

Brierley

 

[brownsox]

As a postscript to the above ...
It's really difficult knowing what to ask for a boat too. We've just put our Trapper TS 240 up for sale. We paid £12000 for it (probably a bit over the odds but though bare it was sound in every important sense, we loved it and there weren't any others of that model for sale) We've spent over £7,000 on it and it's now really well equipped. We've had a huge amount of pleasure from it. So now that we've bought a bigger Trapper - what to ask? Clearly £19,000 would be well over the odds so we settled on £14,750. But it's a finger in the air job really. To answer the original question, we certainly wouldn't be offended by a genuine offer from someone who wanted the boat, not just a bargain. And we could always remove some of the expensive kit, and sell it separately. We want someone to enjoy her as we have. I don't suppose anyone would be offended by an offer, although they may not accept! Most of the photos on our website, by the way, were taken this September!