Buy a Dutch steel boat in the Netherlands and flirt with the disaster...

TwoHooter said:
I am wondering:
-Did the filters which were fitted to the boat have water separation? And what about the new filters?
-What is the filtration specification of the new primary fuel filters (ie: how many microns)?
FWIW the recommendation for the John Deere/Lugger engines fitted to Nordhavns is (a) pre-filtration 30 microns and (b) engine filters as specified for the particular engine (usually 2 microns for common-rail).

I noticed this: 'The builder TINNEMANS has no archives about this boat.' I find that quite frightening.

I'm beginning to get a feeling about the situation. Like Latestarter, I wonder if any of the systems were ever signed off by anyone. I can't resist drawing the contrast - when we bought our ten year old Nordhavn we not only got the very detailed Owner's Manual including a set of drawings and schematics and the back-up of the Owners' Group (which includes almost instantaneous support from specialists at all the main systems providers) but the builders can supply detailed information about every boat they have ever built. We had a query about our rudder last week and within 48 hours I had received a copy of the detailed construction drawing.

If I was Balder I would get a specialist to do a full inspection (not just an ordinary boat survey) and report, including all the systems on the boat. There are people with experience of this sort of thing who would do a very thorough job.
Click to expand...

There is a lot to learn from these replies. Buying this demo boat was of course a challenge. I understood it very quickly last july when we visited for the first time this boat.
It is the reason why the repair list after our survey was so crucial and NPS BV should have taken care about that.
God thanks, the American customer who starded this project in 2008 has decided to install very professional equipments mostly from KEY POWER, Northern Lights, webasto, maretron, sailor, maxwell, comnav and of course John Deere
I have of course to struggle with some Dutch technical translation, and last, I prefer to deal with Brits than Dutch...when money is involved!

About Gulf coast, there is also a fuel polishing system from gulf coast fitted in the engine room but I am mostly sure that owners-brokers didn't use it. This may explains problems now. " Dans la vie, il faut se battre", I will see soon what happens when NPS mechanics will be back aboard...
I
 
Hello!

Some news: NPS diesel, french division came aboard last week and changed full injection system, pipes, pump and injectors. They explained that it should have been definitely done before we accepted the boat.
The new diesel bought for our departure from Sleeuwijk in late september was still ok in may. No bacterias, but some water. Two mechanical worked during two days before trials etc. They made a fair discount. But it cost us time and money!
Sleeuwijk Yachting who organized the repairs after our survey in august as well the owner broker - Ship Vision had refused to share the bill...: very unfair and unprofessional people...beware if you are ready to buy or sell through their offices or on the internet.
So, what I learned :
1 - I have made a mistake, not ask my surveyor to be back one more time in the Netherlands after the miserable "repairs" done in Sleeuwijk... but we wanted to leave and play with the big toy!
2 - be too confident with these bas.....ds, after all, yachts are passion and pleasure
3 - do not learn Dutch when I was in school !!!!!!

Fair winds and following seas!
Dominique
 
balder said:
But it cost us time and money!
Click to expand...
There's an easy fix for that: just forget it, and enjoy your fine vessel!
Looking forward to a new thread, along the lines of ..."a fantastic cruise with a Dutch steel boat (eventually :))"
 
Well, with the utmost respect for anyone who spent that much time at sea (particularly for work!), as you surely know, if everybody in commercial maritime industry would stick to your principles, we would struggle to have fishes, tropical fruits, and all sort of other goods daily shipped by single engine vessels...

...Hang on, coming to think of it, we might also not be flooded with chinese stuff.
After all, maybe yours is a good point indeed! :D :rolleyes:
 
balder said:
Hello!

Some news: NPS diesel, french division came aboard last week and changed full injection system, pipes, pump and injectors. They explained that it should have been definitely done before we accepted the boat.
The new diesel bought for our departure from Sleeuwijk in late september was still ok in may. No bacterias, but some water. Two mechanical worked during two days before trials etc. They made a fair discount. But it cost us time and money!
Sleeuwijk Yachting who organized the repairs after our survey in august as well the owner broker - Ship Vision had refused to share the bill...: very unfair and unprofessional people...beware if you are ready to buy or sell through their offices or on the internet.
So, what I learned :
1 - I have made a mistake, not ask my surveyor to be back one more time in the Netherlands after the miserable "repairs" done in Sleeuwijk... but we wanted to leave and play with the big toy!
2 - be too confident with these bas.....ds, after all, yachts are passion and pleasure
3 - do not learn Dutch when I was in school !!!!!!

Fair winds and following seas!
Dominique
Click to expand...
After spending all the $$ with NPS did you ask them to confirm that your Deere is now installed fully meeting manufacturers guidelines?
 
balder said:
Hello!

Some news: NPS diesel, french division came aboard last week and changed full injection system, pipes, pump and injectors. They explained that it should have been definitely done before we accepted the boat.
The new diesel bought for our departure from Sleeuwijk in late september was still ok in may. No bacterias, but some water. Two mechanical worked during two days before trials etc. They made a fair discount. But it cost us time and money!
Sleeuwijk Yachting who organized the repairs after our survey in august as well the owner broker - Ship Vision had refused to share the bill...: very unfair and unprofessional people...beware if you are ready to buy or sell through their offices or on the internet.
So, what I learned :
1 - I have made a mistake, not ask my surveyor to be back one more time in the Netherlands after the miserable "repairs" done in Sleeuwijk... but we wanted to leave and play with the big toy!
2 - be too confident with these bas.....ds, after all, yachts are passion and pleasure
3 - do not learn Dutch when I was in school !!!!!!
Fair winds and following seas!
Dominique
Click to expand...

Glad to hear your good news.
What did NPS do about your primary fuel filters?
 
I've just read this whole post as a passer of time Arrecife airport, nothing amazes me anymore in this industry.
I might add more when I'm near my Mac.
A great story and glad for the op it's better..
 
volvopaul said:
I've just read this whole post as a passer of time Arrecife airport, nothing amazes me anymore in this industry.
I might add more when I'm near my Mac.
A great story and glad for the op it's better..
Click to expand...

Yes I feel better but was is true and confirmes by NPS french technician is that diesel quality is a true problem. To avoid pollution, engines burn more than before!
As well, level of sulphur has changed and if we do not consume oftenly all diesel in our tanks, we are in danger. In teh Netherlands, the borker filled the 8300 Liters with very dirty and cheap diesel coming from tankers ( he is selling tugboats etc). But, I know also, very recent luxurious motoryacht which had prbkems with diesel bought in Malta. Ok when you motor more or less every days but if you let the yacht in "sleeping mode" for winter, danger...
Of course my injection system was already damaged before I bought the yacht. And few months later, teh worth happened. Consider that this trawler had only 400 hours on the clock, fom 2010....
Now I plan to use the fuel polishing system fitted aboard every 15 days and add of course additives.
Thanks for all your comments and apologize again for my broken english, I should have been more precise . But, YBW forum is not the place for a pure french expression ( I was columnist in Paris before...)
 
Balder,

Sorry but I beg to disagree.........

The root cause of the problem was the 'not fit for purpose' fuel filtration which should never have been signed off by NPS, they are culpable!

ALL Tier 3 engines will burn more fuel than Tier 2 if that is what you truly have, simple fact of life as engines operate more retarded to meet lower Nox levels however dependent on make of engine difference Tier 2 to 3 can be quite small.

Quality of fuel is not the issue............... Any vessel needs to have a properly designed fuel filtration system capable of handling all grades of bunker fuel, protecting your engine and not clogging filters at the first sign of contamination. Additives are not mandatory.

None of the above is rocket science, however you appear to be in the hands of a bunch of complete plonks regardless of them being from Holland or France!

I was always of the opinion that Deere dealer support was at best weak and your experience confirms it.
 
Sorry to repeat this, but I ask again. What has been done about your fuel filters?
  1. What did NPS do about your primary fuel filters?
  2. What is your fuel filtration and fuel polishing system?
This is fundamental to the safety of you and your family. It seems that your original fuel filtration system was absolutely dangerous because it could lead to main engine failure at sea. What has been changed and what do you have now?
I am not going to criticise anybody, I just want to try and help. I am probably the only person in this thread who has a main engine like yours (thankfully mine is older and has correct fuel filtration).
 
Thinking aloud here-I have sight glasses (actually transparent plastic flexible 10mm pipes)on each tank.Pand Stb .
They are independentantly valved with a push button .Default is off .They seem to connected lower on the tanks than the main engine out fuel tap.
Therefore maybe with this setup if I understand it correctly ? It's possible to see contamination ?well black 8hit in the glass ?
They also double up as x refference to guages marked at1/4 intervals .
We have 2x 800L and 1x600Lextra long range tank all inter -connected with various valves ,so,si think we can isolate one ?
Anyhow I have Allways used "snake oil " Startron " additive for € 30 / fill up -so far no bug probs .
We also have water in fuel. Sensors on the racors ..
Boats inactive for 6 winter months -sits with full tanks to min condensation = bug likes water .
 
This all reminds me of a job some years back.
A Sealine SC29 with D3 190s, all good at river speed but as soon as its asked to go it wouldn't, well one engine wouldn't , net result limp mode. Boats fault was passed around a few dealers , same scenario a test giving the owner and tech a nice print out of fancy number and codes but little else as to how the fix goes.
2 different dealers both fit new CP pump and injectors, one fit a turbo all at owners expense , still no better.
I end up with it , and yes great at harbour speed limit but soon as you ask it to go, limp mode, swap fuel taps over slightly better but no max speed, occasion shut down, ahh things getting better, run said engine from 20 litre drum, hey full power.
Return to marina strip fuel pipes right out from engine to tank, find snake like debris in pre filter pipe to tank, pull out with pliers, thinking hey that's it. Sea trial now both engines drawing from each source, 5 mins into test, limp again.
Back to marina, deck panels removed stack pipe out of tank, more snake like substance this time in the stack pipe, remove pipe to find a pice approx to metre long.
Turns out it was the seal the from the tank inspection hatch, over zealous boat builder.

Had this been in warranty the builder would have been picking up the tab for everything.
 
TwoHooter said:
Sorry to repeat this, but I ask again. What has been done about your fuel filters?
  1. What did NPS do about your primary fuel filters?
  2. What is your fuel filtration and fuel polishing system?
This is fundamental to the safety of you and your family. It seems that your original fuel filtration system was absolutely dangerous because it could lead to main engine failure at sea. What has been changed and what do you have now?
I am not going to criticise anybody, I just want to try and help. I am probably the only person in this thread who has a main engine like yours (thankfully mine is older and has correct fuel filtration).
Click to expand...

Bonsoir TwoHooter,

Sorry I was trying to post pictures and an answer but with my broken english, I made solme mistakes with this friendly Motorboat forum
question 1 : NPS said me teh Gulf Coast Filters fitted before ( one micron) can slow the flow to the engine. So they recommand to keep the two bypass Racors prefilters ( changed by Sleeuwijk yachting after ou survey)
question 2: the polishing system is also provided by Gulf Coast filters with a transfer pump and an alarm with sensor and flashing red light.
I use also this pump through manifolds to transfer from one tank to another ( I have 1885 Liters both on port side and starboard and 5000 in the center and middle of the yacht.

I have one access at the bottom of each tank. I will replace the " bouchon" ( sorry french word, like on the tap of a bottle of wine) and fit a valve to open it once a month to take out water or algae. secondly, I will very quickly, before departure to Channel Islands, add different additives.

Now, my john deere M1 "heavy duty" sounds to run normally... But I am still stressed...No news from the brokers of course...
I think a 57' with this amount of diesel aboard must be used regularly and more than before. The situation could be worse in the future because of new regulations on diesel etc...
Vernolab, a very serious company based in l'Eure ( Normandie) did for me an analyse of my diesel ( the new one after we discovered the contamination) : answer: no contamination but too much water.
 
I stumbled across this old post. Sorry to resurrect a 5yo old post but I just wanted to say that as much info as everyone posted I have struggled with these sane problems in heavy equipment that I work on. The real answer is simple and terrible.
The new diesels attract water. You must change fuel filters as often as oil filters if not more and run a fuel water separator with a sensor as mentioned earlier. These new pumps are only dependable as long as fuel is pristine. But.. Just a tiny bit of water contamination will wash out a pump quickly and 250 hour failures and loss of adequate pressure is not uncommon.
Use of a true water remover like Stanadyne treatment is a must. Isopropyl/ featured alcohol is also ok and cheap.
Sorry but days of immortal Bosch mechanical pumps are gone.
Welcome to the age of disposable everything
 
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