Buy a boat sooner or later

[boguing]

Late to the party, as usual.

In my view, there is nothing better than a quick sailing boat for cruising. I would never have suggested the SJ as a first boat because all sorts of people would say 'no, too racey'. You'll get to B faster and will still be sailing when they have turned the key. One of the main reasons that boats like this didn't sell in bigger numbers has always been the lack of heavy and comfy accommodation, too minimalist for most. That and 'well if it gets such good race results it must be too fast/tippy/overpowered etc..'. Don't ask me how I know this!

Well done, and if I lived closer I'd definitely be up for some tuition (or, more like, 'this is how I would do it because').

Just one point. You said 'we' when talking about the living on board. If the other party(ies) have not done much sailing, please make sure that they come along on the learning trips. I could go on about this for hours, but it's been by far the biggest factor in the broken dreams that I've seen. If they don't join in now, the fact is that in two years time they will possibly be thinking that 'he didn't know anything about it two years ago, and probably hasn't learned enough yet', and will definitely see through any bravado on your part - they will have known you for a fairly long time prior.

 

[DHV90]

All good to hear! And another advantage I have been told about is greater sensetivity to sail trim. Im likely to learn the subtle changes in sail shape much more effectively on a boat that actually responds in a noticeable way to changes, rather than something where I'm just trying to keep it moving in light winds. Even if she does feel 'overpowered' to me, I'd be tempted to get a cheap mainsail second hand off of a smaller boat and sail on that for a while with a reefed in genoa and treat that as a 'restrictor' for a short while, and then keep the smaller sail for rougher weather/stronger wind where I run out of reefs in the main and/or want to protect it from damage in rough conditions, and save the big main for when I know a little more about the boat and can enjoy it's advtanges properly.

I'm thinking of spending some time sailing with a few groups of people, the first group is the people I was on competent crew with and we all intend to practise more as a group and then think about doing day skipper next year, the other group is some friends, some of whom have sailing experience and some don't, but I will take them out on learning trips. Firstly, I'll suggest they get on competent crew before going on longer trips other than flitting around the bay in which case I'll just reconstruct the comp crew material as best I can and give them some books to read before hand etc. But the idea is that we all learn together at more or less the same rate, which hopefully should work. If it doesn't, then we just delay moving on to the boat by another year or two while we save some money and get more practising in, we'll not consider moving on until we're absolutely ready, 2 years is sort of the date when we can start thinking about it but I'm not planning to shoot of straight away!

As for accommodation though, the previous owner made quite an nice job of the interior, and other than the stripped out forepeak it's pretty comparable to other cruising boats I've looked at, and better than many! Huge amounts of storage, 2 comfy double beds in separate compartments, headroom, I really couldn't ask for more and personally think it's really spacious down there! I guess another reason they were always limited production is as racers they were quickly being outdated by technology and shifts in the rule book as well, suits me though!

 

[boguing]

You really are painting a picture of a younger version of me.

Tweakability response, check.

For what it's worth I've sailed more than a few of what I call masthead fractional rig boats. (7/8ths). I've always sailed them as if masthead, but with occasional nods to fractional.

They are 'mainsail driven' so I wouldn't be rushing out to buy a small one. Using cunningham and flattening reef will get you up above 15kts true. Reducing headsail is key, because it let's you get the main out further, putting the thrust vector at more a useful angle closer to parallel with the boat's center line.

For cruising I soon realised that the number three genoa was the sail to use in anything over 4-5kts true. Had a sail from Guernsey to Hamble. True was about 4, boat speed 7. Felt like a magic carpet. Add flat sea, dark night, no moon and huge phosphorescence = unforgettable.

Lastly, sails don't really get damaged by strong wind (obviously not completely true). By far the worst damage happens through bad handling (letting it flog - this is verboteon. Never go head to wind to hoist reef drop). Bad trim - too much/little tension on one or more bits of string. Ease everything until creases are about to appear. (Experience). Poor stowage. Always flake, never stuff. If it's too windy on deck, chuck it downstairs until you get home. Never leave ant string tight when not in use - even lunchtime!

Lastly. Your thoughts on haul out. On an X-402 I found that weed cost 1% of boatspeed per week. Leeway was worse, but in those days, harder to measure accurately. Go for the best antifoul that local racers recommend. Be prepared to do a dry out scrub three monthly at least (espec in Summer/Autumn). I have no personal experience of mud berths, but a good friend keeps his Contessa 32 in one at Rye. He uses a deck brush to get to as much as poss before every race. Sailing a boat like this with any fouling will be like driving a McClaren MP4C with the handbrake on. Horrible.

ps. I found this page, might be of interest. I've met the Aisher family, and they've never bough a duff boat to the best of my knowledge. http://rbsailing.blogspot.co.nz/search/label/Three-Quarter Tonners

 

[pmagowan]

I would buy one as soon as you fall for one. Get one significantly under budget that is a bit untidy. You will get more for your money in wood IMO but it is not to everyones taste (depending on your carpentry skills). Then spend the winter getting her up to spec. Strip her right down, renew electrics, overhaul engine, and run your hand over every inch. Then spend the remaining money on good kit, safety gear etc. This way when you get things going in the spring you will know the boat inside out which is a huge help when learning to sail. There is loads of information about all the bits and bobs on here but really by t he time you set sail there should not be a single compnent on board that you are not already familiar with. Sounds like a lot but it is good fun and satisfying to see a good boat come back to life.

P.s. just noticed you are ahead of me.

 

[onesea]

Checked the P bracket and despite looking a bit of a mess, it is solid and theres no play in it or the prop shaft, so wont muck around with it for now but in 2 years when we haul out Ill work out what I want to do with it, and will check it on any intermediate haul outs.

To be honest, getting 36 feet with 2 aft cabins and standing head room for £5000, well say 6, the work required seems fairly minimal, will spend a week on the boat fixing leaks and painting. Considering lining the outside walls of the 2 aft cabins (with the flaky paint) with some kind of self adhesive felt type stuff, less fuss than paint and nice and soft? Might ask for a sample of it and see how it looks.

Cracking boat for the price, one thing with leaky deck fittings and balsa core decks. Not the end of the world and if I was you but if you find any soft balsa just make sure you seal it properly if well built it should not spread. You can come back and deal with big issues later, do not let it stop you sailing.

Cosmetics will take for ever peeling paint I am still dealing with 18 months later. I have come to the conclusion to let it go and paint it when most of it has fallen (or being scraped) off. You are dealing with an unknown paint or paints and the next coat after year or three might react and fall off. I had thought about lining but to be honest when you appreciate the speed and fun of the boat does she really need the extra weight? With the added fact if you do not clean the paint off properly the lining will only fall off where the paint falls off (again experience speaking).

Initially I would forget the cosmetics respect what she is a light weight and fast boat, not without her flaws but if you like tweaking she will really grow on you.
I would agree as soon as the wind hits double figures your No 3 becomes your friend particularly if short handed. Who wants to deal with changing down in that much wind unless racing, you hardly loose any speed.

If you do end up drying against a wall remember she could go by the bow as well, as the owner of similar boat I know mine does.

For electronics I would suggest you don't realistically have the space for a plotter in the cockpit, I would go with your phone and Navionics. You have traditional GPS below for plotting positions the olde worldy way, initially you do not need more.

I recommend sail her for 2 years before you make serious alterations, she has been around for over thirty years. She cannot be that wrong...

My tip is get her sailing and see what you really need. Oh and do not be in to much of a rush to move on you will have to spend allot more money to get a comfier or faster boat.

 

[Seven Spades]

You will never get a cheaper boat than today. The price of new boats has gone up and this has not been reflected in the price of secondhand boats. Second hand boats will be very scarce once the economy turns and then the prices will go up.

 

[DHV90]

I had thought about lining but to be honest when you appreciate the speed and fun of the boat does she really need the extra weight? With the added fact if you do not clean the paint off properly the lining will only fall off where the paint falls off (again experience speaking).

Initially I would forget the cosmetics respect what she is a light weight and fast boat, not without her flaws but if you like tweaking she will really grow on you.
I would agree as soon as the wind hits double figures your No 3 becomes your friend particularly if short handed. Who wants to deal with changing down in that much wind unless racing, you hardly loose any speed.

If you do end up drying against a wall remember she could go by the bow as well, as the owner of similar boat I know mine does.

For electronics I would suggest you don't realistically have the space for a plotter in the cockpit, I would go with your phone and Navionics. You have traditional GPS below for plotting positions the olde worldy way, initially you do not need more.

I recommend sail her for 2 years before you make serious alterations, she has been around for over thirty years. She cannot be that wrong...

My tip is get her sailing and see what you really need. Oh and do not be in to much of a rush to move on you will have to spend allot more money to get a comfier or faster boat.

Yeah I do agree about cosmetics, just felt like it'd make sense to do something while the deck fittings are off. But actually, the peeling paint is a really nasty 'non slip' stuff chucked on top of the original blue deck, which is still present underneath so I might be able to restore that to an extent, Ill peel off the bad paint and see what it's like. As for the lining, it can't weigh that much and could make a huge difference to how the boat feels inside, would be much more welcome than cold fibreglass and peeling shards of paint!

As for chart plotter, that's part of the long term wish list and I would put it on in the nav station definately not the cockpit, don't want whoever's helming, me or someone else, lured into staring at a screen really.

When you say no3 do you mean headsail? roller furling on this one so I don't need to worry about that!

And im in NO rush to move on! To be honest, with a tidy interior, this is the sort of boat I was dreaming about and thought I'd never be able to get. All that space and those lines! Not a hope in hell of me upgrading really. It also seems that past 40 foot size becomes almost a hinderance, this seems the perfect balance for me.

Thanks for all the kind words everyone, instilling me with confidence

 

[TigerBay]

Hi I am a member of Cardiff bay yacht club and just to let you know there are two oyster sj's there a sj35(barebones) sj36(typhoon) if you like I could put you in contact with the owner of the sj36 witch is currently a project in the yard after being out of the water for 7years!



Owen