DavidBolger
Member
What is the difference. We got a new barbeque and it asks for Butane but I have loads of Propane (for patio heaters) in the house. The regulator is the same so can I use propane in the barbeque?
regards
regards
Butane vs Propane
- Thread starter DavidBolger
- Start date
Evadne
Active member
No. Or probably not.
The regulator may be the same but the burners will be different. Propane has 3 carbons per molecule and Butane has 4, so needs more oxygen per mole to burn properly. Not burning properly may mean carbon monoxide. Propane in a butane burner may work, or may blow out too easily (too much air).
Butane produces more joules per gram (or btu per ounce if you're that old) and solidifies at a lower temperature.
Hope this helps.
The regulator may be the same but the burners will be different. Propane has 3 carbons per molecule and Butane has 4, so needs more oxygen per mole to burn properly. Not burning properly may mean carbon monoxide. Propane in a butane burner may work, or may blow out too easily (too much air).
Butane produces more joules per gram (or btu per ounce if you're that old) and solidifies at a lower temperature.
Hope this helps.
andyoxon
New member
This made me wonder, as I used to be involved with hot air ballooning, where we always used propane. Had a little google, found this on a camping site:
Of the two gases, Butane has the most advantages.
It is less toxic and so can legally be used and stored indoors. Litre for litre, it contains around 12% more energy than Propane and so you can squeeze more running time into the same sized bottle. (Butane is heavier than Propane though, so weight for weight it's a pretty close call.)
Butane also burns cleaner than Propane (although this isn't normally a serious issue in caravanning.)
Finally, while it's not strictly a property of the gas, Butane canisters generally use clip-on type connections. These are far more convenient than the Propane screw type connections, especially if you swap bottles around regularly (as you might if you also use your caravan bottle to run a barbecue.)
Conversely, Propane has only one advantage over Butane - but it's a big one!
In order to be usable, the liquid in the bottle must be able to boil into a gas. In the case of Butane, this will happen at any temperature above -2C, whereas with Propane, this figure is much lower, at -42C. In the real world, it's not so clear cut. Whenever some of the liquid boils into gas, the remaining liquid cools. It is therefore possible for the temperature of the liquid to drop to several degrees below ambient. This can easily prevent a Butane canister from producing a useful gas supply, even when the outside temperature is several degrees above 0C. A compromise can be reached by mixing Propane with Butane, but as far as I'm aware, none of the UK 'big bottle' suppliers actually do this. The small gas cartridges that are produced for camping stoves and gas lamps are often Propane/Butane mixes. So choosing the right gas pretty much boils down to whether you need to use it in freezing (or near freezing) conditions. If this is likely, then Propane is a must. If not, then Butane has the edge.
So there you go.
A
Of the two gases, Butane has the most advantages.
It is less toxic and so can legally be used and stored indoors. Litre for litre, it contains around 12% more energy than Propane and so you can squeeze more running time into the same sized bottle. (Butane is heavier than Propane though, so weight for weight it's a pretty close call.)
Butane also burns cleaner than Propane (although this isn't normally a serious issue in caravanning.)
Finally, while it's not strictly a property of the gas, Butane canisters generally use clip-on type connections. These are far more convenient than the Propane screw type connections, especially if you swap bottles around regularly (as you might if you also use your caravan bottle to run a barbecue.)
Conversely, Propane has only one advantage over Butane - but it's a big one!
In order to be usable, the liquid in the bottle must be able to boil into a gas. In the case of Butane, this will happen at any temperature above -2C, whereas with Propane, this figure is much lower, at -42C. In the real world, it's not so clear cut. Whenever some of the liquid boils into gas, the remaining liquid cools. It is therefore possible for the temperature of the liquid to drop to several degrees below ambient. This can easily prevent a Butane canister from producing a useful gas supply, even when the outside temperature is several degrees above 0C. A compromise can be reached by mixing Propane with Butane, but as far as I'm aware, none of the UK 'big bottle' suppliers actually do this. The small gas cartridges that are produced for camping stoves and gas lamps are often Propane/Butane mixes. So choosing the right gas pretty much boils down to whether you need to use it in freezing (or near freezing) conditions. If this is likely, then Propane is a must. If not, then Butane has the edge.
So there you go.
A
DavidBolger
Member
I knew this was the place to answer the question. Propane cooked burgers for me tonight then!!
Drascomber
New member
My understanding is the same as but less knowledgeable than Evadne's. In other words you may get away with it in a barbeque used out of doors but you really need different burners. However you should find that you are prevented from trying by different connectors.
Whilst we are on this subject - On my boat I use one of those ubiquitous flat camping stoves that came onto the market about 6 years ago with spark ignition, flame failure device, and get about 2KW out of a tall disposable cylindrical gas canister that lies down at the side. It works brilliantly and I wouldn't go back to a traditional canister camping stove but it uses straight butane. So in quite modest temperatures as in early May on the South Coast it won't boil the morning cuppa unless I cuddle the freezing canister for a couple of minutes - darned uncomfortable. Please, please manufacturers - make a propane mix version of this stove and sell suitable gas.
Whilst we are on this subject - On my boat I use one of those ubiquitous flat camping stoves that came onto the market about 6 years ago with spark ignition, flame failure device, and get about 2KW out of a tall disposable cylindrical gas canister that lies down at the side. It works brilliantly and I wouldn't go back to a traditional canister camping stove but it uses straight butane. So in quite modest temperatures as in early May on the South Coast it won't boil the morning cuppa unless I cuddle the freezing canister for a couple of minutes - darned uncomfortable. Please, please manufacturers - make a propane mix version of this stove and sell suitable gas.
Gunfleet
New member
Hot water cylinder jacket?
tobble
New member
My understanding was that you can run either gas in most appliances, but the regulator needs to be different because they 'work' at different pressures for the same nozzle diameter etc. it would seem this does not agree with your statement that the regulators are the same so I may be wrong... But which regulators do you mean?
AngusMcDoon
Well-known member
You need a CP250 cartridge - butane/propane mix, and work fine in Bright Spark stoves.
£1.50 per tin on this website but the cheapest place I've found to get them is from Argos in boxes of 12. They will post them. Works out about £1.35 for a tin, or £5.40 per kg of gas. Cheaper per kg of gas than some of the Camping Gaz refillables!
CP250
Cooking on 2 stainless Bright Spark stoves...
£1.50 per tin on this website but the cheapest place I've found to get them is from Argos in boxes of 12. They will post them. Works out about £1.35 for a tin, or £5.40 per kg of gas. Cheaper per kg of gas than some of the Camping Gaz refillables!
CP250
Cooking on 2 stainless Bright Spark stoves...
charles_reed
Active member
Burners are interchangeable, regulators are not - propane runs at a higher pressure than butane.
A
Anonymous
Guest
If it's a new BBQ then you can ask the manufacturer? However, my understanding is that many burners are designed to work with butane or propane without modification but others are supplied with a different jet (small brass plug with a tiny hole in it).
In the bottled gas world, butane is regulated to a pressure of 32 mBar and propane to some other pressure. In the bottle, propane is higher in pressure than butane. To prevent accidentally using the wrong gas, the fittings on the regulators are made so that the propane can only fit a propane bottle and the butane, a butane.
Butane is a real pain in cool weather but maybe you wouldn't be using a BBQ in the cool - then again the cylinders can get very cold and stop giving gas. BBQs deliver a lot of heat and use a lot of gas so this could be an issue.
The Calor centre at Southampton is a fount of knowledge on these things.
In the bottled gas world, butane is regulated to a pressure of 32 mBar and propane to some other pressure. In the bottle, propane is higher in pressure than butane. To prevent accidentally using the wrong gas, the fittings on the regulators are made so that the propane can only fit a propane bottle and the butane, a butane.
Butane is a real pain in cool weather but maybe you wouldn't be using a BBQ in the cool - then again the cylinders can get very cold and stop giving gas. BBQs deliver a lot of heat and use a lot of gas so this could be an issue.
The Calor centre at Southampton is a fount of knowledge on these things.
Jock89
New member
I don't know why anyone would bother with Propane really. Many years ago, on holiday up North in Scotland, in my Camper-Van, we got up one morning to find that the temperature had gone down to -26Degrees during the night.
Everything had frozen solid, water in the kettle, Gaz cylinder on the portable heater, & the Propane to the Cooker. No heat, & couldn't make tea & toast for hours.! Absolute hell.!
So, having not forgotten that experience from 30 yrs ago I've not used Butane since, & I've not been caught out like that since then.
IMO you're better off switching over to Propane altogether, there are no advantages to using Butane in the Northern Hemisphere.
Everything had frozen solid, water in the kettle, Gaz cylinder on the portable heater, & the Propane to the Cooker. No heat, & couldn't make tea & toast for hours.! Absolute hell.!
So, having not forgotten that experience from 30 yrs ago I've not used Butane since, & I've not been caught out like that since then.
IMO you're better off switching over to Propane altogether, there are no advantages to using Butane in the Northern Hemisphere.
cliff
Active member
[ QUOTE ]
there are no advantages to using Butane in the Northern Hemisphere.
[/ QUOTE ]There are when your gas locker will not hold even the smallest calor propane cylinder but will hold 2 "906's". A simple "fix" for butane freezing is to warm the cylinder.
--------------------
"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"
sailroom <span style="color:red">The place to auction your previously loved boatie bits</span>
there are no advantages to using Butane in the Northern Hemisphere.
[/ QUOTE ]There are when your gas locker will not hold even the smallest calor propane cylinder but will hold 2 "906's". A simple "fix" for butane freezing is to warm the cylinder.
--------------------
sailroom <span style="color:red">The place to auction your previously loved boatie bits</span>
A
Anonymous
Guest
[ QUOTE ]
A simple "fix" for butane freezing is to warm the cylinder.
[/ QUOTE ]
In 2004 we were overwintering on board in Chichester Marina and a forumnite took pity on my plight, and sent me a coil of heating wire which I kept on 24/24 around the butane cylinders. We don't use it in Spain though /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
An easier and older trick I used to use on the inland waterways was to pee on the bottle when in trouble. Then you can get enough pressure to boil a kettle, and keep it going that way.
A simple "fix" for butane freezing is to warm the cylinder.
[/ QUOTE ]
In 2004 we were overwintering on board in Chichester Marina and a forumnite took pity on my plight, and sent me a coil of heating wire which I kept on 24/24 around the butane cylinders. We don't use it in Spain though /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
An easier and older trick I used to use on the inland waterways was to pee on the bottle when in trouble. Then you can get enough pressure to boil a kettle, and keep it going that way.
A
Anonymous
Guest
[ QUOTE ]
.. there are no advantages to using Butane in the Northern Hemisphere.
[/ QUOTE ] There are here. Butane is a cleaner and better fuel, slightly, and we never, ever, have a problem with low pressure. Mind you, we use a large 15kg Repsol cylinder and the surface area of that is a good heatsink (source).
.. there are no advantages to using Butane in the Northern Hemisphere.
[/ QUOTE ] There are here. Butane is a cleaner and better fuel, slightly, and we never, ever, have a problem with low pressure. Mind you, we use a large 15kg Repsol cylinder and the surface area of that is a good heatsink (source).
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