Burton Waters & a costly learning curve

[mhph]

I will post this in the first person, but my wife and myself were in it together.
I was embarking on my first boat and it came down to 2 Sealine S34`s.One lying as a stock boat with BW at Ipswich, the other on the Hamble.Ipswich with kad 32`s, Hamble with 43`s.
I did seek advice but didn't wait for a response (OK I was naive and stupid).
At just after 5.00 pm on May 2nd I paid £1k holding deposit by credit card, in person at BW,and signed a contract.
Later that evening I received a response to my seeking of advice! In no uncertain terms,firstly to "be aware of BW",and secondly in his opinion the 32`s are underpowered for the boat, (of course others may disagree).
I thought long and hard, but decided to listen to somebody vastly more experienced and knowledgeable than me.
The next morning just after 9.00 am I contacted BW, spoke to the salesman and told him my decision.He seemed to throw his dummy out of the pram,said he would ring me back but never did.I must have rung at least twice day for 5 days and never once got to speak to him again.To cut a long(er) story short,with e-mails backward and forward, Adam Cox the MD said he was not obliged to return any of the deposit but as a gesture of goodwill would refund only £750.
Now it did say on the contract "any cancellation would be subject to an admin charge".I had absolutely no problem with that, but I felt the scale of the charge was ridiculous.
I had joined the RYA and sought & received advice from Mandy Peters no less, who basically agreed, but that I did not have a leg to stand on legally.She suggested I pursue it with the OFT.I did, but cannot do anything except maybe pursue with the small claims court.
I am calling it a draw now, but sufficient to say I will not be having any dealings at all with BW.I just say to myself that maybe £250 was a small price to pay, because who knows what further problems/hassles may have occurred further into the transaction.

I am now almost concluding the purchase of a Targa 34, with Ancasta ,Haslar(Mike Hinks),who has been professional and helpful throughout,unlike aforementioned BW. I have continued to receive fantastic help and advice from a well know member of this parish but said I would not mention his name to spare his blushes.

 

[Mr Wolf]

But would you find Ancasta as professional and helpful if you changed your mind on buying their boat???

 

[sarabande]

usually purchase contracts / deposits are subject to a survey, and if the survey finds unacceptable issues, then the deposit is refunded.

Did you have a survey as part of the purchase process ?

 

[Mr Wolf]

The OP was saying 'he changed his mind' - doesn't sound like he even got to survey stage.

 

[lovezoo]

The OP claims he changed his mind by 9am the following day. What admin costs did BW really incur? Not £250 worth for signing a contract and processing a payment.

 

[mhph]

But would you find Ancasta as professional and helpful if you changed your mind on buying their boat???

Are you an apologist for Burton Waters?

It wasn`t even the full deposit, only a holding deposit in lieu of the full deposit; which would have then been subject to conditional survey etc

It was only held overnight, so it wasn`t as if the boat was being prevented from being sold.

From a sales point of view, surely the thing to have done was to say "I`m sorry you changed your mind Mr.., but I understand why, so let me find another boat for you to your requirements". I was a completely inexperienced and naive cash buyer who that numbnut salesmen & the company let go.

 

[Whitelighter]

How do you know they didn't get an enquiry late that night and said sorry sold?

The buyers indecision might have cost a sale. Might not but in my opinion bw have been fair, though they have handled it well. Should never have got to director level

 

[Whitelighter]

Sorry, should read bw haven't handled it well.

iPhone typo

 

[Thepipdoc]

£250.00??
Welcome to the world of boating. This is small change compared to what you might yet have to part with, and still not get the boat you wanted.
You might have found the boat you want to buy, but there's many things that could yet go wrong.
The boat world is very small and Burton Waters might yet be able to help you.
Personally I wouldn't burn your bridges before you are 100% happy and only time will confirm this.

 

[mhph]

£250.00??
Welcome to the world of boating. This is small change compared to what you might yet have to part with, and still not get the boat you wanted.
You might have found the boat you want to buy, but there's many things that could yet go wrong.
The boat world is very small and Burton Waters might yet be able to help you.
Personally I wouldn't burn your bridges before you are 100% happy and only time will confirm this.

I know £250 is small change, that is not the point, I am about to part with £105k.The point is I think £250 is just ridiculous for an "admin" charge.Thats all, simple.People either agree or disagree.

 

[Thepipdoc]

You knew there would be an admin charge if you cancelled.
You subsequently cancelled, and because they have applied the contract as it should be applied, you're not happy.
Given that you knew this, ( you must have known otherwise you wouldn't have signed the contact would you?) you should have stipulated what was a reasonable admin fee was prior to signing the contract.
You seem to want it both ways - i.e. you want to reserve the boat and remove it from the market place, but should you change your mind you want you money back.
As you said I can agree or disagree, and as you can probably gather, I disagree.
As the saying goes - Caveat Emptor!

 

[mhph]

You knew there would be an admin charge if you cancelled.
You subsequently cancelled, and because they have applied the contract as it should be applied, you're not happy.
Given that you knew this, ( you must have known otherwise you wouldn't have signed the contact would you?) you should have stipulated what was a reasonable admin fee was prior to signing the contract.
You seem to want it both ways - i.e. you want to reserve the boat and remove it from the market place, but should you change your mind you want you money back.
As you said I can agree or disagree, and as you can probably gather, I disagree.
As the saying goes - Caveat Emptor!

This is my last on this.I dont want it both ways,I knew there was an admin charge,I have no problem with that.It was the size of it.For gods sake you are not going to ask what the admin charge is are you, cancelling is the last thing on your mind.
It was removed from the market overnight,I walked out of the office with the salesman as he locked up.
Another apologist for BW

 

[jfm]

Devil is in detail and we don't know what contract says but it looks like you reneged on a deal. I think BW were very fair just to charge £250. Note, the contract didn't say " the only charge if you cancel is a £250 admin fee". I'm amazed you're complaining. A deal is a deal and you completely underestimate the gravity of what you did in reneging

 

[Thepipdoc]

Sorry, but I'm no ones apologist.
I've no experience of Burton Waters and how they conduct their business, I merely pointing out the flaws in your "point". The fact is you haven't got a "point", at least not one that would stand up in a small claims court ( as previously suggested by you).
You've suggested you may "Put this down to a draw" I would say that you should put this down as a 1-0 win to you. You could have lost the entire £1,000.
Were you expecting everyone that read your post to pat you on your back and say "there, there, did that naughty man take some of your money"? and if they didn't, you were going to label them as BW apologist?
For the record, just because someone doesn't agree with you, you might find that's because the other person is looking at this from a purely objective view point, and not the biased one you currently have.

 

[Whitelighter]

This is typical of internet forums (not so much this one in the past mind)

Poster A posts how he has been hard done by etc etc expecting to get overblown sympathy or calls of 'hang them' only to throw their rattle when most people say that actually, he hasn't.

I don't think anyone is a BW apologist, its more that in straight forward business terms you broke an agreement and frankly the charge is a fair one. I would think that it was fair from any broker, big or small.

I agree that the salesman didn't handle it well, and it shouldn't have taken the MD to get involved but that is the problem with sales staff in a number of industries who all to often see you as a walking commission cheque. He feels you have wasted his time (which you have) but his (the salesman's) response was unprofessional.

I suspect that you are spending a sum of money which represents a good number of years of hard graft, sweat and tears (it would be a massive amount for me also) and for that you were expecting a bit of extra added value service. That's not unreasonable, but also this is a regular transaction for brokers and it can become a bit ordinary. You seem to have had no issues with BW until the point that you decided you hadn't actually done enough research and cancelled. I suspect you may find any other business would act accordingly (save for the sulky salesman).

I am glad you know have a deal on a boat you are happy with (nice choice the T34 by the way) and hope that you have many years of enjoyable stress free boating ahead of you.

 

[Mr Wolf]

Are you an apologist for Burton Waters?

It wasn`t even the full deposit, only a holding deposit in lieu of the full deposit; which would have then been subject to conditional survey etc

It was only held overnight, so it wasn`t as if the boat was being prevented from being sold.

From a sales point of view, surely the thing to have done was to say "I`m sorry you changed your mind Mr.., but I understand why, so let me find another boat for you to your requirements". I was a completely inexperienced and naive cash buyer who that numbnut salesmen & the company let go.

If you were there last thing at night and you were not 100% sure if the boat was right for you - why give them the deposit? As you say, they weren't going to sell it overnight and you could have paid the deposit over the phone the next day (or not) after sleeping on it.

I agree they may not of handled it well (letting it get to Director level is silly) and have certainly lost a future potential customer. The simple answer for them would have been to withhold the £250 as they are entitled to do but say they will deduct that from your next purchase from them - simples

 

[mhph]

If you were there last thing at night and you were not 100% sure if the boat was right for you - why give them the deposit? As you say, they weren't going to sell it overnight and you could have paid the deposit over the phone the next day (or not) after sleeping on it.

I agree they may not of handled it well (letting it get to Director level is silly) and have certainly lost a future potential customer. The simple answer for them would have been to withhold the £250 as they are entitled to do but say they will deduct that from your next purchase from them - simples

Thats the point , I thought the boat was 100% right for me,it was only after receiving the advice I changed my mind.
I say again, it wasnt the full deposit........nah cant be bothered anymore.

 

[benjenbav]

I sold a boat to BW once and my experience was that their representative turned up when he said he would, offered me a price which was within the parameters I was expecting - albeit at the bottom end. We shook hands. I did a bit of paperwork over the phone with someone in their office and the money was CHAPS-ed to my account when they promised to do so, a couple of days later. It was businesslike.

As to the OP's issue, if I was in the boat-selling business I would have returned the whole deposit in order to promote good will. Maybe the post would then have been along the lines of the OP having changed his mind and how great the broker had been in sorting it out.

But, there doesn't seem to be any doubt that they were legally entitled to do what they did. The whole point of taking a holding deposit is to provide the broker with some compensation for taking the boat off the market if the buyer decides to change his mind and maybe the OP's point is that by applying the letter of the law, BW haven't won his heart and soul and so he will shop elsewhere in the future.

 

[OAF]

........nah cant be bothered anymore.

Some ones thrown their toys out the pram!

I have dealt with BW before and their communication skills were ****,in this case I think that they dealt with it in the wrong manner but 250 as an admin fee is not out of the way.

Just my opinion of course!

 

[Phill]

I did seek advice but didn't wait for a response (OK I was naive and stupid).
At just after 5.00 pm on May 2nd I paid £1k holding deposit by credit card, in person at BW,and signed a contract.

Can't blame BW for that
Think it was generous of them to make the 75% refund.