Budget for an autopilot (37-40ft boat)

Wheel pilot works OK if all you want is basic hands free steering to a compass course, e.g. to get sails up or down while short handed, motor in the same direction while you make tea, follow a course in easy weather under sail etc. It actually meets the needs of a lot of people who would rather be sailing their boat than pushing buttons.
Doesn't have the power (or speed) when a boat demands vigorous helming though.
What do you want from it?
 
lw395 said:
What do you want from it?
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To reiterate:
Primarily it's for use when motoring in calm weather, for keeping us head to wind whilst messing around with sails, and for short periods under sail where it's not really worth setting up the wind vane.
Secondarily, as a backup to the windvane so that if that craps out half way across an ocean, we can continue without having to hand steer all the way.
 
Thanks guys , I’m following this closely having upgraded my Garmin GPSMap 451s chartplotter to a Raymarine C70 head unit and RD18 analogue Raymarine radar , so it made sense to me to replace my old Nautos Autohelm that came with my old Fjord 28CS motorsailor with a Raymarine ST4000 MkII wheel pilot set up .
It’s second hand sure , I’m sailing on a two bit budget and have a habit sadly of buying the wrong stuff that can’t talk to each other .
I’ve a VHF DCS radio with built in GPS so I bought a multiplexer from Raymarine to run it to the C70 on NMEA0183 , and now the set up is compatible with the wheel pilot whilst allowing it to be updated later with an AIS which can be NMEA0183 too and overlay the screen on the C70 MFD unit .
The package I just bought hasnt yet arrived but is complete as the seller had just bought the EVO version at about £2400 , so all I have to work,out hopefully is exactly where to mount the components as it’s recommended that certain parts of the assemblies are kept a specific distance apart to prevent deviation from interference between components.
Clearly I’m still learning and MIGHT have got it wrong this time too .
I’ve no DSM module for a transducer to read depths on the C70 , but have a NASA Clipper wireless wind set up and their Clipper DUET which can be connected via again , the NMEA0183 system.
It does get confusing unless your a happy electronics installer , and I’ve steuggled to find a drawing of what 8nhave and how to connect it all , but it could be that I have to sell my unused and not yet wired in NASA instruments to replace them with all Raymarine instruments so chose carefully , and anyone who can shed any light on my install please do .
I’m not a complete idiot ...
Some bits are missing ; )
Best wishes Mark
 
lw395 said:
Wheel pilot works OK if all you want is basic hands free steering to a compass course, e.g. to get sails up or down while short handed, motor in the same direction while you make tea, follow a course in easy weather under sail etc. It actually meets the needs of a lot of people who would rather be sailing their boat than pushing buttons.
Doesn't have the power (or speed) when a boat demands vigorous helming though.
What do you want from it?
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Would be OK if they were robust and reliable. Having had 3 of them fail on me after minimal use I would not recommend them to anybody. The electronics are fine, but the drive is poorly engineered and difficult to repair when it fails.

On top of that it is limited in the size of boat it can cope with even if just used for motoring. It would be a waste of money on the size of boat the OP is looking at.
 
Must admit, the only wheelpilot I spent much time with was about 15 years ago. It seemed Ok, didn't break, had adequate torque on the wheel, but this was on an ex-racing yacht, 40ft with a very nicely designed balanced rudder. Simrad branded?
At the time I thought the electronics weren't great, lots of pointless sawing the wheel from side to side, but some time spent fiddling with the gain and dead band settings seemed to help.
I mostly liked it as a quick way of locking the helm.
 
One of the reasons I'd prefer a below-decks autopilot is that it can function as an additional emergency steering system e.g. if a cable breaks.
 
Kelpie said:
So as I thought, it's a bit complicated!
The plan is to equip a boat for bluewater cruising, but there would be a Hydrovane or similar doing most of the ocean stuff. The autopilot would be primarily for use when motoring, or for short periods when it wasn't worth setting up the windvane. Obviously it would be a good idea to have something robust enough to act as a backup to the vane, though.
The boats we're currently considering include the Moody 37/376, Westerly Sealord/Oceanlord, and others of that sort of type.

At the moment we really just need a rough figure so that we can factor in the cost of an autopilot when making an offer on a boat. Looks like £2.5-3k should be about right, from what's been suggested above.
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When I bought my Westerly Corsair it had an old autopilot fitted, but didn't work satisfactorily. Lckily the linear drive ( which is probably the single most expensive component was OK. The rest of the set up I replaced with 2nd hand equipment from ebay or similiar. This ensured they were compatible with Seatalk system. Total cost a lot less than £1,000. On longer trips we use it a lot, but not in heavy conditions.
 
Rafiki said:
When I bought my Westerly Corsair it had an old autopilot fitted, but didn't work satisfactorily. Lckily the linear drive ( which is probably the single most expensive component was OK. .....
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It is a good point. On my own boat which had an Neco Autopilot from before 1974, the rotary drive was still working. The control relays and electronic components were removed, a simple relay was added and the motor tested which confirmed it would work with my new Evolution Autopilot. However, old kit is exactly that, old kit, and I wonder if the Neco motor will be reliable. If not it will be relatively straight forward to fit a new drive unit. The cost to convert the Neco motor was £130, excluding the cost to send the motor to the conversation company.
 
Kelpie said:
One of the reasons I'd prefer a below-decks autopilot is that it can function as an additional emergency steering system e.g. if a cable breaks.
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On the whole, cables tend to be more reliable than autopilots?

It's a fair point, but I don't think an autopilot is a substiture for an emergency tiller.
 
lw395 said:
On the whole, cables tend to be more reliable than autopilots?

It's a fair point, but I don't think an autopilot is a substiture for an emergency tiller.
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And part of your offshore kit should be spare cable , very cheap , and an emergency tiller
but to the op as I have said before your autopilot must be able to handle ocean conditions as things tend to break although Vindvanes are very robust , you should always prepare for failure, so a auto pilot that just's fits into the size and weight of your vessel might not handle out there in the big blue, there is no compromise on safety. the jump from Raymarine 1 to 2 is substantial ,but it is what I have done as I venture out in 18 months.
 
lw395 said:
On the whole, cables tend to be more reliable than autopilots?

It's a fair point, but I don't think an autopilot is a substiture for an emergency tiller.
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No it's not a complete subsitute for an emergency tiller, but it's almost certainly going to be a very useful trick to have up my sleeve to simply engage the AP and continue sailing, without the drama and delay of digging out the tiller and then having to shout instructions down to a second person in the aft cabin.

My ideal setup would be a Hydrovane plus a good below-decks AP, and the emergency tiller as another option. Seems like the most robust setup possible without getting into the realms of paranoia.
 
Think you will find most wheel steered boat will have an emergency tiller. However not easy to operate on a centre cockpit boat as it is usually in the middle of the bunk in the aft cabin! Wherever they are located they are mostly of limited use either because other things like binnacles get in the way or the tiller is simply not long enough to give enough leverage. On my boat the tiller faces aft and you have to drop the transom to use it. Hopefully will never need it.

So you are right an autopilot drive on the stock or quadrant is a better bet - assuming you still have electricity.
 
Emergency tillers are often a bit of a comedy.
As part of prep for offshore racing, we sawed about 4" off the one on my mates boat (to clear the wheel), then found a nice little tackle which goes to the windward mooring cleat.
I guess if you expect to tack much, a tackle each side would be nice!

There are worse ideas than helming from the aft bunk.
 
I have a really basic question which i don't want to start a new thread for. I'm Australian and relocating my boating activities and i am trying to identify discount boating warehouses, or where do you go in the UK/Europe to buy things, starting with a tiller pilot? We have them here and i am sure they exist in the UK/Europe i am having trouble identifying.
Cheers
Perry
 
It's probably worth a new thread, but for what it's worth, for electronics I look at SVB in Germany, Cactus in the UK. Whatever you do, read up on Marine Megastore before you think of buying from them. Nothing wrong with the similarly named Marine Superstore, who I use fairly often.
 
anoccasionalyachtsman said:
It's probably worth a new thread, but for what it's worth, for electronics I look at SVB in Germany, Cactus in the UK. Whatever you do, read up on Marine Megastore before you think of buying from them. Nothing wrong with the similarly named Marine Superstore, who I use fairly often.
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Yes, all good suppliers. I'd add JG Tech in the UK, who really know what they're talking about and offer keen prices too.
 
To be honest the best drive is a mamba drive unit. The Raymarine linear drive contains plastic parts (or used to) and they will need replacing at some point. A mamba drive will last a lifetime if you are lucky.
 
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