bs3911 compared to CCA for starter batteries

geem

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Looks like our two 12v starter batteries need replacing. We have a 24v starter so have two 12v starter batteries in series. The specification in the Perkins manual says two 440A batteries to BS3911. We are in the Caribbean and every battery here quotes CCA. How do I select suitable batteries based off CCA?
 

PaulRainbow

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Looks like our two 12v starter batteries need replacing. We have a 24v starter so have two 12v starter batteries in series. The specification in the Perkins manual says two 440A batteries to BS3911. We are in the Caribbean and every battery here quotes CCA. How do I select suitable batteries based off CCA?

BS3911 dates back to the 80s, so not really applicable now.

I'd just replace them with a pair that match the sizes and terminal layout of the existing batteries.

Which Perkins engine do you have ?
 

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I rarely look at CCA .... I just buy a Heavy Duty suitable sized Amp/Hr battery designed to start decent sized Diesel engine ...

OK - My Perkins is a 4-107 and based on a 12V starter ... so its anything from 80A/Hr and up HD starter battery.
 

geem

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BS3911 dates back to the 80s, so not really applicable now.

I'd just replace them with a pair that match the sizes and terminal layout of the existing batteries.

Which Perkins engine do you have ?
Perkins M92b 4.4 litre 24v
 
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geem

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440 CCA isn't a lot by today's standards. I'd imagine the most common (=best value) starting battery would have more power so I'd go for the biggest, most common batteries you can afford/ fit.

I'd avoid No-Name or unknown-name stuff and everything else equal, I'd take the heaviest.
It's not 440CCA. It's 440amps to bs3911. My guess is I need a pair of 750cca batteries but I am trying to find if there is something a bit more scientific than my guess. A pair 100Ah batteries might be about right. Still a guess.
 

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Tranona

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If it helps a Beta 105 which is just under 4litres has a recommended battery of 180Ah and 1050CCA 12v.

Capacity is less important than CCA, but your 2* 100Ah sounds about right.
 

NormanS

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Two 100, or may have been 110Ah, in series was plenty for my old Gardner 6L3, 17 litre engine. It was a much bigger lump than your Lister.
 

VicS

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440 CCA isn't a lot by today's standards. I'd imagine the most common (=best value) starting battery would have more power so I'd go for the biggest, most common batteries you can afford/ fit.
If it helps a Beta 105 which is just under 4litres has a recommended battery of 180Ah and 1050CCA 12v.
Capacity is less important than CCA, but your 2* 100Ah sounds about right.

BUT
The OP has a 24 volt system which means that the cranking current will be much lower than it would be for a 12 volt system. Theoretically only half

The batteries supplied by one well known supplier for a 4.4 litre diesel Range Rover are12 volt 110 Ah with a CCA rating in the range 850 to 950.
Taking this as a starting point two 12 volt batteries in series with a CCA around 450 should suffice. This being so, a couple of 70Ah 12 volt batteries in series should be adequate.
 

Zing

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Looks like our two 12v starter batteries need replacing. We have a 24v starter so have two 12v starter batteries in series. The specification in the Perkins manual says two 440A batteries to BS3911. We are in the Caribbean and every battery here quotes CCA. How do I select suitable batteries based off CCA?
Consider a lithium battery. You need a tiny one for starting. For example I have a 50 watt hour capacity battery as factory supply to start an 1100 cc petrol engine motorcycle. It is about a third of the size of what would be needed with lead acid. The battery will last a lot longer, be lighter and should be little different in price given that it needs so little capacity.
 

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I thought Lithium batteries were unsuitable for engine starting but it seems some claim to be able to deal with it.
 

geem

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Consider a lithium battery. You need a tiny one for starting. For example I have a 50 watt hour capacity battery as factory supply to start an 1100 cc petrol engine motorcycle. It is about a third of the size of what would be needed with lead acid. The battery will last a lot longer, be lighter and should be little different in price given that it needs so little capacity.
I am not messing with lithium for engine starting. We have a bog standard alternator. Two 750cca batteries here are $165 each. A pair of 550cca are $135 each. Can you imagine cost to sort out lithium alternator charging. The last starter batteries were £100 each in Columbia. They lasted four years and had to deal with stupid heat whilst ashore for the summer. Far easier to just bang some standard batteries in. Available anywhere in the world
 

Tranona

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Longer term you might consider changing to high power AGMs such as Red Flash, Odyssey or US made Full Throttle. They are about 2-3 times more expensive than lead acid, but a fraction of the size and weight (mot that this is really an issue for you) but will likely last 5 times as long. The Red Flash in my Morgan has just died after over 19 years. The replacement (due tomorrow) is £175 compared with a good quality LA for £75, although that will require extensive mods to fit because of the size.

I have a similar type of Odyssey, but different shape and a bit bigger capacity (32Ah compared with 26) in my GH. As you can see from the photo (note wiring is temporary and incomplete) its small size allowed me space to get 190Ah of AGMs in a restricted space.
 

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Zing

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I am not messing with lithium for engine starting. We have a bog standard alternator. Two 750cca batteries here are $165 each. A pair of 550cca are $135 each. Can you imagine cost to sort out lithium alternator charging. The last starter batteries were £100 each in Columbia. They lasted four years and had to deal with stupid heat whilst ashore for the summer. Far easier to just bang some standard batteries in. Available anywhere in the world
Charging is dead easy. Nothing to sort out. Most packaged batteries come with BMS built in so a standard alternator’s small over-voltage Is not an issue. Or charge with a battery to battery supply or A/C on a timer. Those are cheap batteries. You have to pay more for lithium in this use, but you get more.
 

Tranona

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Charging is dead easy. Nothing to sort out. Most packaged batteries come with BMS built in so a standard alternator’s small over-voltage Is not an issue. Or charge with a battery to battery supply or A/C on a timer. Those are cheap batteries. You have to pay more for lithium in this use, but you get more.
Lithium is wasted for engine start. The properties of lithium - high charge acceptance, maximum discharge are a mis match for engine start which require shirt periods if discharge, followed by long periods of charge and even longer periods if no activity at all. The high powered AGMs are far more suited, being specifically designed for engine start such as on competition cars and emergency service vehicles.

Lithium are much more suited to "house" applications where deep discharge and rapid recharge are the norm.
 

William_H

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Presumably the spec in Perkins manual of 440 Amps is equivalent 440 CCA. Now considering that in a 24v system you have half of the current demand of a 12v system starter on similar engine that 440CCA spec is pretty high perhaps unreasonably so. As said I would suggest you go with what you can find in similar sized enfine start batteries. Incidentally if you want to go cheap check each battery voltage under starter load. You will probably find one is more dead than the other so you could just replace one. (I can herar the cries of NOOOO from the antipodes) ol'will
 
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