butler
Member
are some used boat brokers living in a fantasy world, or is it just me,
chris
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chris
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brokers
- Thread starter butler
- Start date
happychap
New member
Yes, I totally agree. Just after the New Year I visited 8 Brokers, all apologised that staff were at the Boat Show, 4 did not have access to boats that they were advertising and everybody offerred a discount on the advertised price before I'd indicated any real interest. - Why advertise a price thats inflated?
A significant number of the boats I viewed had obviously been on sale for some time and were in need of some pretty basic cleaning- perhaps that's down to the owners?. I'm a first time buyer. or rather was, I bought privately.
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A significant number of the boats I viewed had obviously been on sale for some time and were in need of some pretty basic cleaning- perhaps that's down to the owners?. I'm a first time buyer. or rather was, I bought privately.
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LadyInBed
Well-known member
I found that they did less for you than estate agents, and took a higher percentage for the privilege of using them.
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butler
Member
Re: happy chap
hi there, on the weekend i drove 250 miles to look at two boats described as in"tiptop condition" when i viewed the first one it had a knackered engine which was "new in 1999" yes new to the boat but proberly new when noah was a lad, oil in the bilges wouldnt start, the second boat was barly afloat "a little rain must have got in"said the man puffing on a fag," it must be salty rain sez i " never mind still looking thats the fun part,not, cheers chris.
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hi there, on the weekend i drove 250 miles to look at two boats described as in"tiptop condition" when i viewed the first one it had a knackered engine which was "new in 1999" yes new to the boat but proberly new when noah was a lad, oil in the bilges wouldnt start, the second boat was barly afloat "a little rain must have got in"said the man puffing on a fag," it must be salty rain sez i " never mind still looking thats the fun part,not, cheers chris.
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Re: Its the owners
The problem is many owners selling currently got accustomed in the 70's and 80's to the principal that second hand yachts appreciated due to background inflation.
There is a fundamental re-basement of second yacht values underway but this reality has not sunk in with some owners.
I agree that owners seem blind to the deficiencies of the boats they are trying to sell and many must have lost their sense of smell.
It took me a year to find my boat but I eventually began to view the search process as a leisure activity in its own right. During my search I discovered cheap boatyards and marinas, travelled to some countries for the first time and got invited aboard many yachts by chatting with people nearby and generally learned a lot.
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The problem is many owners selling currently got accustomed in the 70's and 80's to the principal that second hand yachts appreciated due to background inflation.
There is a fundamental re-basement of second yacht values underway but this reality has not sunk in with some owners.
I agree that owners seem blind to the deficiencies of the boats they are trying to sell and many must have lost their sense of smell.
It took me a year to find my boat but I eventually began to view the search process as a leisure activity in its own right. During my search I discovered cheap boatyards and marinas, travelled to some countries for the first time and got invited aboard many yachts by chatting with people nearby and generally learned a lot.
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wooslehunter
Active member
Re: Its the owners
The whole buying process is full of pitfalls. I've been looking seriously since Sept.
Owners - just clean the boats and make sure that everything's up together. So many boats are filthy and unpresentable. If you tried to sell a house or car or anything else like that you would fail. That has to one of the fundemental reasons why boats don't sell. If there are faults then be prepare to fix them or negotiate. I had a boat hauled out only to find that although the brokerage sheet said "stripped and epoxied", it was covered with quite bad osmosis. The surveyor said it must have been visible the last time the boat was anti-fouled but the owner said there was no problem. Price the boat reasonably and don't expect to get any of the cash back that you spent on refits or maintenance.
Brokers - few are OK and seem to actually do there job of selling. Most as said above seem to just provide a brokerage sheet that may very well be acurate but could be full of errors. I walked away from one potential purchase because I could never get the broker to call me back. Some brokers it has to be said are scathing about their sellers and have said things like "This boat would be really good if the owner would clean it and fix a few minor things"
Let's make things simple.
Sellers - present your boats in a good, clean and up together state priced reasonably. Be honest - very few people will buy without a survey. If your broker is not getting the interest, move to another broker.
Brokers - broke, even if the boat is only priced at 10k. If you're not prepared to do the work, don't have the boat on the books. Advise your sellers on how to present their boats.
Good luck to anyone buying.
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The whole buying process is full of pitfalls. I've been looking seriously since Sept.
Owners - just clean the boats and make sure that everything's up together. So many boats are filthy and unpresentable. If you tried to sell a house or car or anything else like that you would fail. That has to one of the fundemental reasons why boats don't sell. If there are faults then be prepare to fix them or negotiate. I had a boat hauled out only to find that although the brokerage sheet said "stripped and epoxied", it was covered with quite bad osmosis. The surveyor said it must have been visible the last time the boat was anti-fouled but the owner said there was no problem. Price the boat reasonably and don't expect to get any of the cash back that you spent on refits or maintenance.
Brokers - few are OK and seem to actually do there job of selling. Most as said above seem to just provide a brokerage sheet that may very well be acurate but could be full of errors. I walked away from one potential purchase because I could never get the broker to call me back. Some brokers it has to be said are scathing about their sellers and have said things like "This boat would be really good if the owner would clean it and fix a few minor things"
Let's make things simple.
Sellers - present your boats in a good, clean and up together state priced reasonably. Be honest - very few people will buy without a survey. If your broker is not getting the interest, move to another broker.
Brokers - broke, even if the boat is only priced at 10k. If you're not prepared to do the work, don't have the boat on the books. Advise your sellers on how to present their boats.
Good luck to anyone buying.
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chriscallender
Active member
Re: Its the owners
Good advice, to which I'd add for sellers : If you have got a potential brokerage in mind, check them out by showing an interest in one of the boats thats already on their books. If they show no great interest in selling it, they won't care about selling yours either. If you're selling a 10k boat and it takes a year to sell, they stand to make more from storage fees than brokerage, so maybe they are not in too much of a hurry. Good brokers do exist, you have to do your homework or be lucky to find them...
About the cleaning, its worth remembering that some owners may have a few hundred miles round trip to visit their boat and don't know that its deteriorated and got into a bit of a state with all the people tramping through it, algae growing or whatever. So I think the broker should check every boat at least once a week and give the owners of the dirty ones a prod to get them cleaned. They never do this though, at least in my experience. Why not? After all the broker is on site and surely thats not too much to ask in return for 8% of the eventual sale price. Must make his business look more reputable if its only selling smart, well presented boats as well.
Another idea, why don't they offer some kind of cleaning service for a fair fee, say a couple of hours of cleaing for £20 or something like that - say just jetwashing down the outside, vacuuming the insde and pumping out any genuine bilge rainwater. Would make a lot of sense for owners that have to drive long distances to get to the boats to pay for this to be done monthly or something.
Chris
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Good advice, to which I'd add for sellers : If you have got a potential brokerage in mind, check them out by showing an interest in one of the boats thats already on their books. If they show no great interest in selling it, they won't care about selling yours either. If you're selling a 10k boat and it takes a year to sell, they stand to make more from storage fees than brokerage, so maybe they are not in too much of a hurry. Good brokers do exist, you have to do your homework or be lucky to find them...
About the cleaning, its worth remembering that some owners may have a few hundred miles round trip to visit their boat and don't know that its deteriorated and got into a bit of a state with all the people tramping through it, algae growing or whatever. So I think the broker should check every boat at least once a week and give the owners of the dirty ones a prod to get them cleaned. They never do this though, at least in my experience. Why not? After all the broker is on site and surely thats not too much to ask in return for 8% of the eventual sale price. Must make his business look more reputable if its only selling smart, well presented boats as well.
Another idea, why don't they offer some kind of cleaning service for a fair fee, say a couple of hours of cleaing for £20 or something like that - say just jetwashing down the outside, vacuuming the insde and pumping out any genuine bilge rainwater. Would make a lot of sense for owners that have to drive long distances to get to the boats to pay for this to be done monthly or something.
Chris
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butler
Member
Re: Its the owners
hi i totally agree , a few interesting points for me to remember, the one where they offer discount before you even see the boat happend this weekend he knocked a grand off because the boat was dirty,but it was still way over priced.one was described as having hot@cold water,the water was heated by one of them 1960s gas wall heaters on the forward bulkhead.never pass a survey in a million years.but the best was a centaur with the wrong mainsail(much too small)the owner didnt like sailing and motored everwhere. chris
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hi i totally agree , a few interesting points for me to remember, the one where they offer discount before you even see the boat happend this weekend he knocked a grand off because the boat was dirty,but it was still way over priced.one was described as having hot@cold water,the water was heated by one of them 1960s gas wall heaters on the forward bulkhead.never pass a survey in a million years.but the best was a centaur with the wrong mainsail(much too small)the owner didnt like sailing and motored everwhere. chris
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poggy
New member
Hi,
I must have been lucky, I bought a Gib'Sea 76 without viewing from Network Yacht Brokers in Pwhelli North Wales based on the brokers description and electronic photos he sent me. Also had a surveyor check it of course. They were very helpful and arranged everything for me, craning, mast unstepping for transport, dealt with surveyor and arranged for a few jobs to be done prior to being transported down to the Hamble. When it turned up it looked fantastic and clean. Obviously the owner had spent a lot of time preparing the boat the weekend before it was transported, but the brokers were very helpful even after it arrived and I had a couple of questions.
Before I found the boat I have now, I went to one broker who described a boat as "it is so well maintained it looks half it's age". Basically it was a wreck and I wouldn't have touched it with a very long barge pole.
Guess I was lucky in the end.
Poggy
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I must have been lucky, I bought a Gib'Sea 76 without viewing from Network Yacht Brokers in Pwhelli North Wales based on the brokers description and electronic photos he sent me. Also had a surveyor check it of course. They were very helpful and arranged everything for me, craning, mast unstepping for transport, dealt with surveyor and arranged for a few jobs to be done prior to being transported down to the Hamble. When it turned up it looked fantastic and clean. Obviously the owner had spent a lot of time preparing the boat the weekend before it was transported, but the brokers were very helpful even after it arrived and I had a couple of questions.
Before I found the boat I have now, I went to one broker who described a boat as "it is so well maintained it looks half it's age". Basically it was a wreck and I wouldn't have touched it with a very long barge pole.
Guess I was lucky in the end.
Poggy
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