Brits having a hard time in AC?

[flaming]

But this isn't the 'bleeding edge of technology'. Neither were those catamarans last time around.
It's a circus with a bizarre set of rules isn't it?
The cats were limited in their foils and controls, so that you needed lots of gorillas to adjust trim.
You don't bank an aeroplane by moving the whole wing by brute force, you use an aileron to do it easily.
Likewise this time around, I think the rules are very prescriptive, it almost is a one design.
It's certainly not 'blue sky thinking' or an open rule 'loa < 70ft and 200sqm of sail' kind of thing, or even a formula like the 12m.
It's small variations on a fixed concept.

There is probably more variation in some 'one designs' like say 505s?

Technically, it would be interesting to see this level of expenditure with a much more open rule, like LOA, sail area and crew numbers.
But the racing would be repetitive unless the conditions varied a lot.

If the current format works, in that it gets on TV, and sponsors are willing to field teams, then good luck to it.
In many ways, the more difference between sailing as a mainly amateur sport and the circuses, the better.

Well, they are undeniably the fastest monohulls that there have ever been, so in that sense they are bleeding edge. I take the point that if you truly had an open ended rule book they would look a bit different.

 

[dunedin]

Call me 'Old Fashioned' or someone stuck on nostalgia, but I think the AC should revert to its earlier format ('J Class' type boats) over a course that most racing sailors can understand, and to rules and penalties that relate to those that most of us use.
It was the introduction of the winged keel that IMHO started the decline in relevance of the AC, and reversion to more conventional yachts would potentially make the AC more relevant to most of us who sail. ...............................................

Ironically the wing keel was one of the few things which transferred fairly quickly from the AC 12 Metres to cruising yachts

 

[Bobc]

Well, they are undeniably the fastest monohulls that there have ever been, so in that sense they are bleeding edge. I take the point that if you truly had an open ended rule book they would look a bit different.

Indeed, and the trouble with having a more open rule set, is that you end up with very different boats, like in the cup years ago when the Kiwis turned up with a massive monohull, and the yanks turned up with a wing-foiled cat.

As much as I would really like to see "proper yacht racing", the public didn't understand it and it looked boring to non-sailors, and in order to get the money together, the sponsors really need to see high public interest.

 

[Wansworth]

They should start the race by the boats at anchour........

 

[Praxinoscope]

They should start the race by the boats at anchour........

Even better how about a marine variation of the 'Le Mans ' start and have the crews swim out to the boats?

 

[Resolution]

Go back to one designs..........like a Laser. Ainslie would win that one.

But we still have a competition to find the world’s best sailors in a range of one designs, it’s called the Olympics.
We also have some excellent races for boats that still look like boats but with a variety of design boxes. eg the Vendee.
The AC has always drawn interest from wealthy patrons and has usually been won by the best package of boat design and sailing skill. These kind of patrons would probably have little interest in paying top sailors to race in one designs. The general public would probably have zero interest in watching such racing, whereas there is a modest proven following for ultra dramatic expensive high-speed craft , such as we have now.

 

[Wansworth]

The type of anchour could occupy the pages of the yachting magazines for years..

 

[Resolution]

Even better how about a marine variation of the 'Le Mans ' start and have the crews swim out to the boats?

We did that a couple of times out in Hong Kong in the seventies. GREAT FUN!

 

[Praxinoscope]

I'm not so sure that if the AC were to revert to 'J Class' type yachts that the public wouldn't be interested, look at the crowds that tall ship events attract, if the races are made exiting through a combination of varied courses, and venues that enables on shore and floating spectators with the addition of the tv style coverage that is now possible it could be quite spectacular and became a popular spectator sport.

 

[Resolution]

I'm not so sure that if the AC were to revert to 'J Class' type yachts that the public wouldn't be interested, look at the crowds that tall ship events attract, if the races are made exiting through a combination of varied courses, and venues that enables on shore and floating spectators with the addition of the tv style coverage that is now possible it could be quite spectacular and became a popular spectator sport.

I think that the existing fleet of old (or reconstructed) J Class yachts does that already. Truly spectacular close up.

 

[halcyon]

But this isn't the 'bleeding edge of technology'. Neither were those catamarans last time around.
It's a circus with a bizarre set of rules isn't it?
The cats were limited in their foils and controls, so that you needed lots of gorillas to adjust trim.
You don't bank an aeroplane by moving the whole wing by brute force, you use an aileron to do it easily.
Likewise this time around, I think the rules are very prescriptive, it almost is a one design.
It's certainly not 'blue sky thinking' or an open rule 'loa < 70ft and 200sqm of sail' kind of thing, or even a formula like the 12m.
It's small variations on a fixed concept.

There is probably more variation in some 'one designs' like say 505s?

Technically, it would be interesting to see this level of expenditure with a much more open rule, like LOA, sail area and crew numbers.
But the racing would be repetitive unless the conditions varied a lot.

If the current format works, in that it gets on TV, and sponsors are willing to field teams, then good luck to it.
In many ways, the more difference between sailing as a mainly amateur sport and the circuses, the better.

What is technology ? is F1 high tech ?

What is interesting was yesterday they were touching 50 kts with around 15 kt wind, can we learn, could we transfer some sail knowledge to normal yachts ?

Brian

 

[Whippersnapper]

Interesting comments. I’m no match racer but can tell you it’s spectacular to watch out in the water

 

[RJJ]

Well, they are undeniably the fastest monohulls that there have ever been, so in that sense they are bleeding edge. I take the point that if you truly had an open ended rule book they would look a bit different.

Aren't they the fastest anything-hulls around a course?

 

[dunedin]

I'm not so sure that if the AC were to revert to 'J Class' type yachts that the public wouldn't be interested, look at the crowds that tall ship events attract, if the races are made exiting through a combination of varied courses, and venues that enables on shore and floating spectators with the addition of the tv style coverage that is now possible it could be quite spectacular and became a popular spectator sport.

In recent times they have had J Class racing alongside the AC event - but I think NZ was too far off their usual circuit, even before COVID-19 intervened

 

[Whippersnapper]

Aren't they the fastest anything-hulls around a course?

If they aren’t I don’t know what is faster. 49knots in a 15 knot wind. 35 knots upwind in 12knots. Damn impressive

 

[Whippersnapper]

If they aren’t I don’t know what is faster. 49knots in a 15 knot wind. 35 knots upwind in 12knots. Damn impressive

Just for context I was fuelling up at the dock the other day and the Team NZ Chase boat backed in with its 4, 450hp outboards. Even the chase boats are something to keep up with the yachts

 

[dunedin]

If they aren’t I don’t know what is faster. 49knots in a 15 knot wind. 35 knots upwind in 12knots. Damn impressive

How does that compare to the smaller, previous generation AC cats (which were more limited in the foil tech by the rules at the time)?
With 4 more years of development, and more flexibility in foil control systems, I am sure the fact that the cats don’t need to carry ballast would make them even faster.

 

[Whippersnapper]

How does that compare to the smaller, previous generation AC cats (which were more limited in the foil tech by the rules at the time)?
With 4 more years of development, and more flexibility in foil control systems, I am sure the fact that the cats don’t need to carry ballast would make them even faster.

The kiwi boat was 2knots faster than the fastest ac50 from 2017 on the first day

 

[RJJ]

The kiwi boat was 2knots faster than the fastest ac50 from 2017 on the first day

... upwind we are seeing nudging 30 knots. The cats seldom exceeded 22

 

[Ravi]

I'm not so sure that if the AC were to revert to 'J Class' type yachts that the public wouldn't be interested, look at the crowds that tall ship events attract,

If the organisers realise that there is marketability in tall ships then the next AC will be in wooden two masted schooners with cotton sails!

Maybe that wouldn't be such a bad idea. They would probably be cheaper to build.