Brexit

[Sandyman]

This is a good point, but the UK pre-1973 is very, very different from the UK of now. Not only that but the world of 1973 was very, very different from the world today. It's a fantasy to believe we could go back to the situation prior to 1973, much as we may wish to, that situation no longer exists.

Not only that, but the UK is always going to be just off the coast of Europe. It's not possible to tow it to the mid-Atlantic where you could live in splendid isolation. The world, global trade, and global services are much too intertwined for the UK to be able to 'stand alone'.

I dislike the EU, I dislike the undemocratic way it is run, I dislike it's corruption, I dislike that I was never asked to approve the UK's membership - but we're in too deep and the world has changed. The UK's best option is to remain a member and keep agitating for reform. Whilst my heart yearns for a Brexit my head knows that it would be an unmitigated disaster.

Good post. Couldn't agree more.

 

[Heckler]

If it was your intention to show your lack of comprehension, you've done so with aplomb. Economies aren't like lightbulbs: you don't flick a switch and see the result immediately.

Yawn Yawn!

 

[scoty]

The EU was created by Germany to increase their control, adding the euro kept them in control over other countries, helping germany sell more goods but restricting other countries making their own trade agreements, outside the EU borders

 

[RAI]

The EU was created by Germany to increase their control, adding the euro kept them in control over other countries, helping germany sell more goods but restricting other countries making their own trade agreements, outside the EU borders

Germany could hardly have done that alone. Can you give an example of Germany or the EU preventing countries making their own trade agreements outside the EU borders. Please don't make examples of cases where the countries have tasked the EC to negotiate for them (e.g. TTIP).

 

[macd]

The EU was created by Germany to increase their control, adding the euro kept them in control over other countries, helping germany sell more goods but restricting other countries making their own trade agreements, outside the EU borders

You're forgetting that the Bosch bounders also cornered the market in unicorns.

 

[maxi77]

The EU was created by Germany to increase their control, adding the euro kept them in control over other countries, helping germany sell more goods but restricting other countries making their own trade agreements, outside the EU borders

It never ceases to amaze me what utter rubbish is spouted by Eurosceptics, it also amazes me that they actually seem to believe their propaganda, and that they expect rational people to believe the stuff

 

[Tranona]

It never ceases to amaze me what utter rubbish is spouted by Eurosceptics, it also amazes me that they actually seem to believe their propaganda, and that they expect rational people to believe the stuff

What, you mean something like the assertion from Dave yesterday that pensions will be cut if the vote is to leave.

Both sides spout whatever they think will influence voters irrespective of whether it is true or likely. So Dave gets results from polls showing that state pensioners are increasingly likely to leave so they get the threat of retribution.

 

[Seven Spades]

If Britain leaves the EU, will British registered boats have to leave Greece after a set period as the Aussies and Yanks etc have to do now? God, I hope not. Better vote in.

Nothing will happen after the 23rd as we will only have voted to leave we will not have left anything at that stage. What happens after that date will be the subject to negotiations but in the absence of any other agreement British Registered boats will be the same as any other non-EU boat visiting. So what is the status of boats from Jersey or Guernsey? Will will probably be treated the same way. The big question is we the government stop taxing red diesel?

 

[Seven Spades]

How do the Brexiteers see this immigration reduction thing happening?
There are:
Illegal immigrants - which we can already chuck out, unless they are refugees, though knowing where to chuck them is usually an issue.
Refugees - we signed up to the UN on how to treat them (hard to be inhuman).
Non-EU migrants, if we could stop them, we could do it now but we don't, why not?
EU-migrants resident before Brexit, do we throw them out, wait until they are out of work and then throw them out, give them special residence status, or what?
EU-migrants, those applying for entry after Brexit, will be then like Non-EU migrants, or maybe special status depending on negotiations? A "green card" system?
So how many will be let in, being practical, it won't be zero?

You are so wrong, the government can do anything IF it has the political will. Thus far no government in this country has had the will do do anything to stem the tide of immigration. Whilst immigration lowers the quality of life of everyone who is living in the UK and reduces GDP per head, it actually increases the total GDP. As all our government seem to be content to run a financial deficit the increased GDP makes a useful contribution. It is however a Ponzi theme that has no end. God help us.

 

[Seven Spades]

Of course it is all guess work, the Brexit team have absolutely no plan for the future and I suspect if the vote is to leave there is going to be one hell of a panic

Well you have a choice. leave and suffer like Norway or remain and accept 1.5m Turks. You can read all about it in last weeks Sunday Times where a civil servant has leaked important documents confirming the plan. Unbelievably it seems remain have decided that 24th June is good day to bury bad news and that was the planned day of announcement.

 

[RAI]

What, you mean something like the assertion from Dave yesterday that pensions will be cut if the vote is to leave.

Cutting pensions is a standard austerity measure, one not yet applied in the UK. Why would it be impossible?

 

[RAI]

The big question is we the government stop taxing red diesel?

The government is more likely to have to raise taxes if the eco-gurus are correct. Brexit is not a cure for austerity. The national debt and the deficits will still be mind boggling. Can you see Tories relaxing their grip on applied austerity? (Labour apparently will spend and tax more.)

 

[RAI]

... God help us.

He was a middle eastern Jew, now regarded as an unwelcome migrant in the UK.

 

[Tranona]

Cutting pensions is a standard austerity measure, one not yet applied in the UK. Why would it be impossible?[/QUOTE

Of course the government has power to reduce pensions, provided parliament agrees.

However, having specifically adopted a policy of increasing pensions to gain the "grey" vote in the last two elections, Dave may find it hard to get support for a diametrically opposed policy. Unlike Maggie, this PM is "for turning" as wee have seen many times.

If there is a need to cut government spending there are all sorts of choices available - so why did he focus on cutting pensions if not to threaten the group that is the most likely to vote against him?

 

[maxi77]

Well you have a choice. leave and suffer like Norway or remain and accept 1.5m Turks. You can read all about it in last weeks Sunday Times where a civil servant has leaked important documents confirming the plan. Unbelievably it seems remain have decided that 24th June is good day to bury bad news and that was the planned day of announcement.

Hmmmm, the Norwegians accept free movement of EU citizens, all the single market rules and pay into the EU budget at much the same rate as us but have no MEPs, no representation on the council of ministers and no influence over what rules are adopted, compared to the deal we have now is that better. As for Turks coming here there is no chance of 1.5 million Turks settling here, rather as I am sure you well know it was a suggestion from our Embassy in Ankara that certain passport holders should be exempt from visa rules to VISIT the UK not allowing them to settle here. It certainly is not policy nor was it suggested by the cabinet.

I am still waiting to hear just how the Brexiters intend controlling immigration when it is quite clear non EU immigration is already out of control and we seem unable to find many over stayers and criminals who were supposed to be deported when released from jail

 

[maby]

Hmmmm, the Norwegians accept free movement of EU citizens, all the single market rules and pay into the EU budget at much the same rate as us but have no MEPs, no representation on the council of ministers and no influence over what rules are adopted, compared to the deal we have now is that better. As for Turks coming here there is no chance of 1.5 million Turks settling here, rather as I am sure you well know it was a suggestion from our Embassy in Ankara that certain passport holders should be exempt from visa rules to VISIT the UK not allowing them to settle here. It certainly is not policy nor was it suggested by the cabinet.

I am still waiting to hear just how the Brexiters intend controlling immigration when it is quite clear non EU immigration is already out of control and we seem unable to find many over stayers and criminals who were supposed to be deported when released from jail

I advocate a clean break, not a Norway style relationship.

 

[RAI]

If there is a need to cut government spending there are all sorts of choices available - so why did he focus on cutting pensions if not to threaten the group that is the most likely to vote against him?

Threaten, warn, advise, notify? After Brexit he will have an: "I told you so".

 

[Tranona]

Threaten, warn, advise, notify? After Brexit he will have an: "I told you so".

Do you seriously think he will be in a position to carry out his threat? or that parliament would approve it?

Empty words I am afraid.

 

[KellysEye]

From your post it seems you can stay in Greek waters for as long as you want but, for example, Spain and Portugal are six calender months unless that has changed.

 

[RAI]

Do you seriously think he will be in a position to carry out his threat? or that parliament would approve it? Empty words I am afraid.

Take the Greek example. The EU "forced" them to do it.