Breathables, am I the only one?

[Angele]

I think I can just about read the instructions on the can, yes I did follow them to the letter not once but twice the second time after I found they still left me wet after it p*****d down. So let’s forget the bit if I did it properly!

Well, it seems that Mrs Angele must have a magic touch then. She turned my 14 year old Henri Lloyd stuff from water absorbing to water resistant in the blink of an eye. I think her secrets are only divulged on a need to know basis. And, since she did it for me, I don't need to know. So, I can't actually comment on how she does it.

 

[RobbieW]

Why not get a (light) Mac?

I've got a dark brown overcoat !!

 

[[70521]]

I think I can just about read the instructions on the can, yes I did follow them to the letter not once but twice the second time after I found they still left me wet after it p*****d down. So let’s forget the bit if I did it properly!

If that was the problem then return them to the manufacture as there could be a fault with that batch of material.

 

[C08]

Wind cuts right through mine!

 

[dunedin]

Wind cuts right through mine!

Are they Goretex?

 

[mbroom]

Over the years, I have had several sets of breathable waterproofs from Musto Ocean downwards. I wash and treat them as per instructions. They all fail after a couple of years, and I get damp & cold inside. Next purchase will be Guy Cotten. I agree... the emperors new clothes.

 

[steve yates]

Interesting that the ones that seem to work are the very old one's. I suspect it's a bit like fibreglass boats, when gore first developed the idea and started making the kit, certainly for mountaineering use, it was a much heftier stiffer fabric than modern ultra light ones.
Since mountaineering is like sailing, ie, 955 of users hardly ever use the stuff in anger on a regular basis, because they do it in good weather/summer/easy routes etc... then the manufacturers have eaised that they can make it to a much lower common denominator.
The technology does get better, but that technology is then stretched to it's utmost in the lightest flimsiest materials that can be got away with.

The other thing I have always wondered, how can you get soaked in sweat with oilskins sitting still in a cold wet cockpit? It's not like your out diggin up a road or lifting the bins or anything!

 

[Daydream believer]

Wind cuts right through mine!

Assuming that you are talking about breathable Musto (or similar kit)
I do not think the wind goes through them. The outer layer is not the insulating layer it is meant to keep the water out & let moisture from inside pass outwards.The insulating layers should be worn beneath. If one does not wear the correct kit beneath then the system should not be expected to work. I have no problem with my Musto kit. But i do wear the base & mid layers & including the musto insulated trousers etc if really cold. Trouble is I tend to get too hot & have to start peeling some of it off.
If you only use half the kit then you cannot blame the manufacturer.

 

[Daydream believer]

The other thing I have always wondered, how can you get soaked in sweat with oilskins sitting still in a cold wet cockpit? It's not like your out diggin up a road or lifting the bins or anything!

I think one only has to measure how much one might drink & how much fluid one might pee when on a boat. The body passes an awful lot via sweat. That applies even if one is not doing much. Actually on a boat one's body is moving a lot in compensating for the motion etc. I know of people with back pain or neck pain, who say they feel better after a day sailing. It is because they have been exercising all day long without actually realizing it. How many times have you come back from a days sail & felt knackered yet thought that you have done very little.

If one does not wear gear that allows that sweat to escape it will get trapped & the clothing soon gets clammy. It is OK saying " I have a breathable jacket but still get wet" but if one is wearing ordinary clothes beneath then the whole thing is a waste of time. That is probably why some say they are no worse off with their old PVC gear.

 

[[70521]]

I use Musto MPX kit, although it is usually far too hot in summer, I only wear a tee shirt and shorts under it during the day, by night and for the rest of the year I use a pair of "winter bags" for trousers (lined climbing trousers) and tee shirt, thin fleece or two and a good scarf and hat and are always warm and dry. Not forgetting the new angora goat socks.

There is lots of discussion about base layers and wicking but I always find cotton then synthetics work for me.

 

[Praxinoscope]

I thought this might be a Marmite thread, with those who love them and those who don’t.

After two different makes of breathables, neither of them cheap, I am going to try the Guy Cotton waterproofs even if they don’t look as fashionable as my Mustos’.

I note the comments about wearing the ‘correct’ base layers and mid layers, but hang-on why should I have to buy further ‘special’ items just so I can keep warm and comfortable inside my gear? If i use my old wetties I can carry on wearing my old cotton shirts, scruffy woollen jumpers and salt encrusted jeans and still be perfectly warm and dry no matter what the weather. If it’s really cold then I might go as far as adopting arctic explorers system and wear a silk vest but it really has to cold to go that far. As for ‘running in sweat’, yes I have over the past 6 weeks, but that was wearing just a shirt and shorts, I have never in 50 years of mucking about in boats ever found myself running in sweat when wearing my old wetties. Perhaps that is because I never wear man made fibres, under them, which I do find very uncomfortable and sweaty.

I have one old pair of wetties now over 25 years old and totally scruffy that were once used to try and block up a hole in the bilge, which I use when laying my moorings, iare still waterproof, yet the 5 year old breathable are leaving me damp, not from sweat but rain and spray.

Fine, if you are happy with your expensive breathable that require you to have the ‘right’ clothes underneath to keep out the wind and keep you warm go ahead, but I am going back to the good old windproof and waterproof wet weather gear that doesn’t require me to buy the latest extra stuff to work properly.

 

[steve yates]

It is OK saying " I have a breathable jacket but still get wet" but if one is wearing ordinary clothes beneath then the whole thing is a waste of time. That is probably why some say they are no worse off with their old PVC gear.

Naaa, not really. They are not talking about sweat, they are talking about goretex and it's variations leaking or not breathing.

Don't forget that seams can leak if not taped properly, that the germents breathe by virtue of being full of tiny holes, smaller than raindrops..but when the jacket is running in water, it's breathability is seriously compromised. And lastly, all these materials come in grades of waterproofness, at some some point, they can all allow water ingress.

Musto gear is two to three times the price of good mountaineering gear, I'm not sure they are double or triple the quality or effectiveness though?

 

[Minchsailor]

.....After two different makes of breathables, neither of them cheap, I am going to try the Guy Cotton waterproofs even if they don’t look as fashionable as my Mustos’.....

That may be a matter of opinion.

 

[dom]

Lots of choice out there. My wife sails through the year. She struggles with the cold and like others here suspected that her old Gill gore-tex gear was the problem. A switch to impermeable gear did not help.

Quality gear is expensive - no question - but switching to Musto's latest Ocean range, plus the correct underlayers, boots, double gloves, balaclava, etc., has altered the experience of winter sailing for her from an endurance to something she enjoys. That includes beating into a 45kt Jan 2017 blow.

Horses for courses

 

[Daydream believer]

I thought this might be a Marmite thread, with those who love them and those who don’t.

After two different makes of breathables, neither of them cheap, I am going to try the Guy Cotton waterproofs even if they don’t look as fashionable as my Mustos’.

I note the comments about wearing the ‘correct’ base layers and mid layers, but hang-on why should I have to buy further ‘special’ items just so I can keep warm and comfortable inside my gear? If i use my old wetties I can carry on wearing my old cotton shirts, scruffy woollen jumpers and salt encrusted jeans and still be perfectly warm and dry no matter what the weather. If it’s really cold then I might go as far as adopting arctic explorers system and wear a silk vest but it really has to cold to go that far. As for ‘running in sweat’, yes I have over the past 6 weeks, but that was wearing just a shirt and shorts, I have never in 50 years of mucking about in boats ever found myself running in sweat when wearing my old wetties. Perhaps that is because I never wear man made fibres, under them, which I do find very uncomfortable and sweaty.

I have one old pair of wetties now over 25 years old and totally scruffy that were once used to try and block up a hole in the bilge, which I use when laying my moorings, iare still waterproof, yet the 5 year old breathable are leaving me damp, not from sweat but rain and spray.

Fine, if you are happy with your expensive breathable that require you to have the ‘right’ clothes underneath to keep out the wind and keep you warm go ahead, but I am going back to the good old windproof and waterproof wet weather gear that doesn’t require me to buy the latest extra stuff to work properly.

That is fine- To each his own- you seem more critical of the price more than anything. Well fair enough they are expensive ; but for me they work. I feel comfort is worth the cost. I have tried loads of kit over the last 60 years & done the 3 soggy jumpers bit so I am more than happy to have something good.
You say "why should I have to buy further ‘special’ items" well simply because that is the system one signs up to. If you buy a Porsche you do not buy re tread tyres (or perhaps you would I do not know). As for the "right" I assume you are referring to fashion. I assure you that I know nothing about such things so that point is pretty much an invalid one. I would suggest that is the same for a lot of people in spite of what you infer.

 

[Praxinoscope]

Hi Daydream believer

Yup, you’re right I don’t like the price, for something I don’t think works as well and seems to require further expense just to stop me freezing my b******s off.

 

[mbroom]

Hi Daydream believer

Yup, you’re right I don’t like the price, for something I don’t think works as well and seems to require further expense just to stop me freezing my b******s off.

I have all the super expensive base layers; and I still get damp. They work for a year or so with me and then give up. I have sailed nearly 5000 miles this year, and will never go back to expensive so called breathable waterproofs. Other people have better experiences, but I really wish I could recommmend them.

 

[Resolution]

Some of the comments here are so much at odds with my experience that I almost wonder if the contributors have been paid by Guy Cotten to make them.
I well remember early boating days with rubberised cotton, impervious oilies. They had little thermal insulation, ripped at the mere mention of a cleat under your bum, and invariably wound up dripping wet inside. They did fold up quite small, and came in bright colours, and did not cost a lot.
We have come a long way to my latest Musto and Gill breathables, which are a bit bulkier but in my experience remain absolutely dry inside. If the weather is cold, I use decent thermals and a techno mid layer, and have kept fairly warm even in the snow. Never yet had a rip or a torn seam. I will concede that my fifteen year old ex charter company Mustos are no longer fully waterproof and have been relegated to light weather duty, but the ten year old set seem 100% still.

 

[Praxinoscope]

Some of the comments here are so much at odds with my experience that I almost wonder if the contributors have been paid by Guy Cotten to make them.
I well remember early boating days with rubberised cotton, impervious oilies. They had little thermal insulation, ripped at the mere mention of a cleat under your bum, and invariably wound up dripping wet inside. They did fold up quite small, and came in bright colours, and did not cost a lot.
We have come a long way to my latest Musto and Gill breathables, which are a bit bulkier but in my experience remain absolutely dry inside. If the weather is cold, I use decent thermals and a techno mid layer, and have kept fairly warm even in the snow. Never yet had a rip or a torn seam. I will concede that my fifteen year old ex charter company Mustos are no longer fully waterproof and have been relegated to light weather duty, but the ten year old set seem 100% still.

Oh! How I wish Guy Cotton would pay me for my comments, if they are reading this they are welcome to contact me and offer me a set of their wet weather gear FOC.

 

[Sgeir]

Don't get me wrong, I like the Musto MPX gear. However, after several days in heavy rain and big seas last year, the jacket in particular was absolutely sodden inside and out, with virtually no chance of drying out while in overnight anchorages.

Which is why I bought the Guy Cotten fisherman's jacket from the chandlers in Mallaig. Yes, they are probably not as warm as Musto's quality stuff, and yes, there is the condensation issue, but they do not become waterlogged and much of the water can be wiped off the jacket before going below.

I keep both jackets on the boat but haven't used the MPX at all this year.

Cost is not a decisive factor for us, but the Musto MPX offshore jacket nowadays comes in at about £500; the Guy Cotten jacket is about one fifth of that.