Csail
N/A
Every time i reverse the braked trailer there is a really bad clutch burning smell.Is there something i can do to immobilise the trailer brakes for reversing?
Braked trailors
- Thread starter Csail
- Start date
VicS
Well-Known Member
Old type spring damped overun system has a catch just behind the coupling on the fromt of the spring housing.
Modern automatic systems have a sytsem built into the brake assemblies.
posted some info a few weeks back .. try a search
Modern automatic systems have a sytsem built into the brake assemblies.
posted some info a few weeks back .. try a search
Csail
N/A
I assume its quite old but can't find any switch but it is dark! Only thing i found was getting hands covered in grease!
VicS
Well-Known Member
The blue part in this picture ?
DownWest
Well-Known Member
Thats the bit! We forgot to release it on the way to the boat show at Earls Court in the early 60s. Snow and ice, pulled into a layby to check the load and were pushed off the end by the boat as the brakes were disabled. DuH.
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William_H
Well-Known Member
Trailer brakes
Most simple brake system work on the overide principle. There is a sliding joint between the trailer hitch and the trailer. Movement is usually a max 30mm. When the towing vehicle slows down the trailer tends to push the towing vehicle hence this sliding joint slides in. This movement is used to actuate either mechanical brakes via cable or hydraulic through a master cylinder.
It fololows that if you try to back the trailer the sliding joint will slide together actuating the brakes so increasing the tendency to slide together so increasing brake pressure.
The answer as Vic says is to fit a sleeve or half a piece of tube over the sliding part between the two sections. This will push the trailer when reversing without allowing the sliding part to collapse.
Now if you have sophisticated electric brakes then you should have no problems. olewill
Most simple brake system work on the overide principle. There is a sliding joint between the trailer hitch and the trailer. Movement is usually a max 30mm. When the towing vehicle slows down the trailer tends to push the towing vehicle hence this sliding joint slides in. This movement is used to actuate either mechanical brakes via cable or hydraulic through a master cylinder.
It fololows that if you try to back the trailer the sliding joint will slide together actuating the brakes so increasing the tendency to slide together so increasing brake pressure.
The answer as Vic says is to fit a sleeve or half a piece of tube over the sliding part between the two sections. This will push the trailer when reversing without allowing the sliding part to collapse.
Now if you have sophisticated electric brakes then you should have no problems. olewill
VicS
Well-Known Member
It aint quite that simple Will.
Old fashioned spring damped brakes ... fair enough ... my picture shows one popular spring damped coupling and its manually operated reversing latch (just as important to remember to release it as to engage it as illustrated by the tale above)
However we have to obey all the rules, regulations etc that are foisted upon us by the bureaucrats in Brussels.
The simple spring damped brakes are only allowed on trailer manufactured before 1981
Any braked trailers manufactured after April 1989 must be fitted with a hydraulically damped coupling and auto reverse brakes to give braking efficiencies required by EEC Directive 71/320 (ECE13).
Explanation of auto reverse brakes HERE
If Csail has malfunctioning auto reverse brakes I would not know where to begin to help him other than pointing him in the direction of the above link
Old fashioned spring damped brakes ... fair enough ... my picture shows one popular spring damped coupling and its manually operated reversing latch (just as important to remember to release it as to engage it as illustrated by the tale above)
However we have to obey all the rules, regulations etc that are foisted upon us by the bureaucrats in Brussels.
The simple spring damped brakes are only allowed on trailer manufactured before 1981
Any braked trailers manufactured after April 1989 must be fitted with a hydraulically damped coupling and auto reverse brakes to give braking efficiencies required by EEC Directive 71/320 (ECE13).
Explanation of auto reverse brakes HERE
If Csail has malfunctioning auto reverse brakes I would not know where to begin to help him other than pointing him in the direction of the above link
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oldharry
Well-Known Member
First of all, every time you get the clutch burning smell you are knocking many thousands of miles off the life of your clutch! So if you dont get this sorted you will quite soon have clutch failure. ££££'s
Vic S has said all that can be said about the 2 types of trailer reversing mechanism.
If your trailer has the newer auto reverse system then the problem will be in the brake drums, which need to be dismantled, cleaned and re-set. If you are dunking your trailer when you launch then in all probability the slider mechanism has seized up and needs releasing and re-setting, or replacing altogether. Trailer or caravan specialist should be able to help if you dont feel able to tackle it yourself. Not cheap, but a lot less than having a new clutch!
ProDave
Well-Known Member
Another point worth mentioning.
Whenever you reverse a trailer, you are probably going very slowly, so even without stuck brakes, you will be slipping the clutch a lot.
That's why a requirement for any car that I own is that it must be 4 wheel drive and it must have a high / low ratio gearbox. The low ratio means you can reverse a lot slower without slipping the clutch.
And before you say 4wd dual ratio means you have to drive a monster off roader with the high cost and high fuel consumption, take a look at something like a Subaru Legacy. A normal sized car, that you can buy for the same amount as any similar sized car, with normal running costs, yet it has dual range 4wd. It's just a shame more manufacturers don't follow Subaru's lead and produce ordinary cars with these features.
Whenever you reverse a trailer, you are probably going very slowly, so even without stuck brakes, you will be slipping the clutch a lot.
That's why a requirement for any car that I own is that it must be 4 wheel drive and it must have a high / low ratio gearbox. The low ratio means you can reverse a lot slower without slipping the clutch.
And before you say 4wd dual ratio means you have to drive a monster off roader with the high cost and high fuel consumption, take a look at something like a Subaru Legacy. A normal sized car, that you can buy for the same amount as any similar sized car, with normal running costs, yet it has dual range 4wd. It's just a shame more manufacturers don't follow Subaru's lead and produce ordinary cars with these features.
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
Oi!
Suzuki Grand Viatara. 4wd, Hi, Lo, 34 mpg all the time. 40mpg on a journey. Smaller than a Legacy and will drive through standing water (Which Nathan can't in his Subaru)
Suzuki Grand Viatara. 4wd, Hi, Lo, 34 mpg all the time. 40mpg on a journey. Smaller than a Legacy and will drive through standing water (Which Nathan can't in his Subaru)
Neil
Well-Known Member
I know of cases in which trailer owners have drilled through the coupling of modern auto-reverse braking systems, to allow a pin to be pushed through to lock off the coupling.
cliffordpope
Well-Known Member
There are several kinds of device for overriding the overrun brakes. I have several trailers, with the following:
1) The big 4-wheel trailer has a lifting latch at the rear of the sliding rod. This disables the overrun, but it drops down and re-sets itself if I go forward. For manouvring backwards and forwards this is a pain, because it has to be re-set on every movement. I wire it up temporarily to be permanently disabled, then remove the wire.
2) Older trailers have a removeable collar, as illustrated
3) My horse trailer has a bolt I have to put through the chassis and hand-brake lever.
4) The caravan has a Heath-Robinson piece of angle iron temporarily attached across the chassis members to limit the rod travel.
5) Another trailer has a notch in the underside of the tow rod and a swinging lever that engages in it.
Note that you cannot engage the disabling lever when the trailer has already "overrun". You need to move the towing vehicle forward a few inches , putting the trailer handbrake on first to stop it catching up. ie you have to create the gap for the collar to fit in.
1) The big 4-wheel trailer has a lifting latch at the rear of the sliding rod. This disables the overrun, but it drops down and re-sets itself if I go forward. For manouvring backwards and forwards this is a pain, because it has to be re-set on every movement. I wire it up temporarily to be permanently disabled, then remove the wire.
2) Older trailers have a removeable collar, as illustrated
3) My horse trailer has a bolt I have to put through the chassis and hand-brake lever.
4) The caravan has a Heath-Robinson piece of angle iron temporarily attached across the chassis members to limit the rod travel.
5) Another trailer has a notch in the underside of the tow rod and a swinging lever that engages in it.
Note that you cannot engage the disabling lever when the trailer has already "overrun". You need to move the towing vehicle forward a few inches , putting the trailer handbrake on first to stop it catching up. ie you have to create the gap for the collar to fit in.
jswindel
Well-Known Member
Just on the clutch burning issue. I have heard several experienced towers say the best solution for towing/reversing at low speeds is a car with automatic transmission. Impossible to burn the clutch as there isn't one and infintely variable speed. I haven't used one myself, but did use a Subaru for many years. I used the lo range a few times but found it wasn't really necessary. I've got a Nissan Xtrail now whihc gives selectable 2WD, variable 4WD and fully locked 4WD. In practice I've found 2WD has always worked fine, even on slippery surfaces, but maybe I have just been lucky. My boat only weighs 450kg and doesn't need a braked trailer.
Heckler
Well-Known Member
Fred drift,sorry Vic!
We are supposed to follow these directives and yet Thomson and Ryanair, to name just two that have messed with my life over the last few months, flatly refuse to abide by EC 216/2004. One says they dont recognise a courts decision in relation to it and the other just ignores it. So going on from there why should we pay any attention to these directives. The regulators for the flight industry just wring their hands (AUC) and say they should abide by this reg BUT dont do anything to them!
Stu
Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
The clutch burning smell won't be the clutch; it'll be the trailer brakes. Same material, same smell. BTDTGTTS.
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
Doubt that pushing trailer backwards at 2 mph for a few yards will heat up brake ling material to the burning point. After all brake material is designed to convert energy to heat.
Clutches have a different role in that they are to gradually allow the take up of power and really should do that in as short a time as possible.
See the clutch smoke here
Clutches have a different role in that they are to gradually allow the take up of power and really should do that in as short a time as possible.
See the clutch smoke here
VicS
Well-Known Member
Surely he will only be reversing slowly, esp with the brakes on. That's not likely to be be enough to start them burning.
Far more likely to be the clutch if he is revving the engine and slipping it in order to push the trailer slowly backwards against the brakes. Tee shirt or not.
OTOH if he is reversing fast enough ....
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William_H
Well-Known Member
Trailer brakes
Thanks Vic for that link. I always enjoy learning new things about gadgetry.
When I bought my boat on a trailer it had no brakes.(30 years ago) I lived In Melbourne and had to tow the boat to the water about 20Kms through the city for each voyage.
I fitted brakes to the trailer. This was an overide coupling pushing an hydraulic master cylinder to drum brakes from front of an old Holden car. (large car) The brakes worked well however they had alloy pistons in the steel cylinders. As you can imagine with dunking on every trip there were occasions of arriving at the water with smoke coming from the brakes and wheels due to brakes jambing on. I got some nylon and fabricated nylon pistons for the slave cylinders. The piston does not seal but supports a rubber cup seal. This improved things enormously.
After a few years we moved across the country and found a mooring for the boat. I only towed the boat home for winter.(500 metres) Much better. The brakes were very rusty and I removed the cylinders shoes etc. Despite being a legal requirement.
PS I always prefer auto transmissions. Very smooth application of power. I know UK people have a resistance to auto. Here about 80% of all cars are auto. (like them yanks) I did have 4X4 for a while low range is good of course.
Recently I found the joys of towing to farther cruising grounds and am thinking of reinstating the brakes again. Hopefully disc brakes, cable or hydraulic I am not sure. thanks olewill
Thanks Vic for that link. I always enjoy learning new things about gadgetry.
When I bought my boat on a trailer it had no brakes.(30 years ago) I lived In Melbourne and had to tow the boat to the water about 20Kms through the city for each voyage.
I fitted brakes to the trailer. This was an overide coupling pushing an hydraulic master cylinder to drum brakes from front of an old Holden car. (large car) The brakes worked well however they had alloy pistons in the steel cylinders. As you can imagine with dunking on every trip there were occasions of arriving at the water with smoke coming from the brakes and wheels due to brakes jambing on. I got some nylon and fabricated nylon pistons for the slave cylinders. The piston does not seal but supports a rubber cup seal. This improved things enormously.
After a few years we moved across the country and found a mooring for the boat. I only towed the boat home for winter.(500 metres) Much better. The brakes were very rusty and I removed the cylinders shoes etc. Despite being a legal requirement.
PS I always prefer auto transmissions. Very smooth application of power. I know UK people have a resistance to auto. Here about 80% of all cars are auto. (like them yanks) I did have 4X4 for a while low range is good of course.
Recently I found the joys of towing to farther cruising grounds and am thinking of reinstating the brakes again. Hopefully disc brakes, cable or hydraulic I am not sure. thanks olewill
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oldharry
Well-Known Member
Only if he is reversing at speed for quite a long way! The burning smell only appears after around 1/4 mile at road speeds....
Just forcing the trailer back slowly against its brakes wont cause serious overheating - lining material has to reach a couple of hundred degrees C before it starts to 'burn'. Manoevering the trailer the wheels are only rotating at a few RPM, while the poor old clutch is running at maybe up to 2000rpm and being slipped against its load. It can heat to 'burning smell' in 30 seconds or so being abused like that.
