Bowline or not ?

[PilotWolf]

Only on Portland.

When I started my first job on a charter angling boat I used to go ‘hunting‘ for them with another deckhand, using snares.

I brought some new ones and made the mistake of taking them aboard!

From his reaction your think I’d murdered his wife and kidnapped his daughter!

It was the same about whistling, (up the wind apparently).

W.

 

[Paul HD]

I like the way this shipwright explains the Bowline.

 

[Bristolfashion]

Rabbits were originally introduced from Europe. After Brexit we will have the option of a hare, a badger or a weasel!

 

[westhinder]

that's actually not the case in the Netherlands. Here we're taught that the bitter end is outside.
There is no difference in holding power. However, if it's outside it's easier to throw the bowline over a bolder or piling.

That’s how I was taught here in Belgium too, with the same argument.
Now that made me wonder whether it was a continental thing, but my book of the French Glénans sailing school shows the bitter end inside the loop, not outside.

 

[Airscrew]

So you take your rope make a hole, the rabbit comes out of the hole, goes round the tree then back into the hole. Tighten it up and you have a bowline.

The rabbit has a choice , it can go clockwise or anticlockwise round the tree, are both options the same?

I was taught that if the bitter end is 'inside', then its a bowline.
If its outside, then its not, Its weaker, and sometimes called a cowboy.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

The rabbit has a choice , it can go clockwise or anticlockwise round the tree, are both options the same?

Referring to that bible of knots, The Ashley Book of Knots, if you tie it so that the end lies inside the bowline loop, it is a 'Right Hand Bowline'. If the end lies outside the loop it's a 'Left Hand Bowline'. According to Ashley the Left Hand Bowline is "distinctly inferior", so take note!

(Ref 1010 and 1034½ in The Ashley Book of Knots.)

 

[penberth3]

Referring to that bible of knots, The Ashley Book of Knots, if you tie it so that the end lies inside the bowline loop, it is a 'Right Hand Bowline'. If the end lies outside the loop it's a 'Left Hand Bowline'. According to Ashley the Left Hand Bowline is "distinctly inferior", so take note!

(Ref 1010 and 1034½ in The Ashley Book of Knots.)

Any reasons given why it's "distinctly inferior"? And calling it left/right is confusing - the "hole" can be made to the left or right of the rope, giving four options.

 

[PilotWolf]

I wonder how many people have been sat at home with a piece of rope...

W.

 

[SimonFa]

From our very own:

I thought that was a tugman's knot or something similar, but can't find any reference on the web and my book on knots is on the boat.

 

[De.windhoos]

Referring to that bible of knots, The Ashley Book of Knots, if you tie it so that the end lies inside the bowline loop, it is a 'Right Hand Bowline'. If the end lies outside the loop it's a 'Left Hand Bowline'. According to Ashley the Left Hand Bowline is "distinctly inferior", so take note!

(Ref 1010 and 1034½ in The Ashley Book of Knots.)

I think it's just that the English speaking world was jealous of the superior sailing skills of the Dutch-speaking countries and this is their pitiful attempt at revenge ?

 

[Airscrew]

Any reasons given why it's "distinctly inferior"? And calling it left/right is confusing - the "hole" can be made to the left or right of the rope, giving four options.

Yes, It does depend which way you make the first loop.
But two of those four options will fall apart, and therefore are not knots.

 

[Airscrew]

I wonder how many people have been sat at home with a piece of rope...

W.

Knot me

Well, someone had to say it...

 

[Barnacle Bill]

Any reasons given why it's "distinctly inferior"? And calling it left/right is confusing - the "hole" can be made to the left or right of the rope, giving four options.

Agreed, the left/right is confusing, which is why I described where the end lies, either inside or outside the loop. It's probably just tradition, the term 'left handed' (or cack-handed) simply meaning inferior.

Ashley points out that the 'Left Hand Bowline' is equivalent to the 'Left Hand Sheet Bend'. (As you probably realise, the bowline knot is essentially the same knot as the sheet bend: cut the bowline loop and you have a sheet bend.)

The Left Hand Sheet bend is the where the two ends lie on opposite sides of the knot. It's considered inferior to the standard version where the ends lie on the same side. Ashley tested these knots for 'security', i.e. the number of jerks in the rope necessary to make each knot slip or spill (come undone), and the proper Sheet Bend performs significantly better than the Left Hand Sheet Bend. You could probably do the same test for the bowlines, but I can't find that in Ashley.

 

[TernVI]

Agreed, the left/right is confusing, which is why I described where the end lies, either inside or outside the loop. It's probably just tradition, the term 'left handed' (or cack-handed) simply meaning inferior.

Ashley points out that the 'Left Hand Bowline' is equivalent to the 'Left Hand Sheet Bend'. (As you probably realise, the bowline knot is essentially the same knot as the sheet bend: cut the bowline loop and you have a sheet bend.)

The Left Hand Sheet bend is the where the two ends lie on opposite sides of the knot. It's considered inferior to the standard version where the ends lie on the same side. Ashley tested these knots for 'security', i.e. the number of jerks in the rope necessary to make each knot slip or spill (come undone), and the proper Sheet Bend performs significantly better than the Left Hand Sheet Bend. You could probably do the same test for the bowlines, but I can't find that in Ashley.

A bowline gices you a loop. The idea is that both sides of the loop will be under tension, so it's really not very much like a sheet bend at all, which is traditionally used with different sized lines and with the two bitter ends not under tension.

In braided rope, what I would call a left handed bowline would be a mirror image of a right handed bowline. In 3-strand rope the lay of the rope might make a difference.

 

[lustyd]

Not like a sheet bend at all? Have you ever actually looked at either of these? With a close up picture you couldn't tell the difference since they are the exact same knot

 

[TernVI]

Not like a sheet bend at all? Have you ever actually looked at either of these? With a close up picture you couldn't tell the difference since they are the exact same knot

Did you read and understand the rest of my post lardhead?
What part of a bowline bering a loop is beyond your comprehension?
Do you not understand that having tension on 3 of the 4 'ends' rather than 2 makes a fundamental difference?

 

[oldharry]

Rabbits were originally introduced from Europe. After Brexit we will have the option of a hare, a badger or a weasel!

I never had a problem with forming a bowline until somebody told me this rubbish about rabbits and trees Now I get confused where the rabbit is supposed to go, and by the time I've got the rabbit going the right way (or is it the left way?) down his hole (or is it up the hole?) the boat's drifted back out again and is hitting things!

For me mnemonics are worse than spell checkers.

 

[oldharry]

Only on Portland.

Try buying Duracell batteries on a Brittany Ferry. They are banned. The crew objects to the bunny rabbit trademark!

 

[RichardS]

Rabbits were originally introduced from Europe. After Brexit we will have the option of a hare, a badger or a weasel!

Who shot the unicorn?

Richard

 

[RichardS]

Did you read and understand the rest of my post lardhead?
What part of a bowline bering a loop is beyond your comprehension?

On Scuttlebutt? And faking the username? Seriously?

Richard