Bow thrusters, necessary or plain gizmo ???

[captainslarty]

We have had the pleasure of being in La Coruna for over 12 monthes now.. all points of the season, all abilities in the boat hanndling arena..
Some observations for comment...............

(Obviously some are generalised.. please note this)
Out of 'season' / season being the perfect monthes to cross biscay...
All types (out of 'season') in all, mainly older, solid boats.. no bow thrusters... approaches in any weather, great seamanship normally.

Other times, the 'in season' according to all written data... muchos bowthruster toting merchants.. making a total f*&k up of the approach to anything from the fuel berth to the normal slip...
Is this normal ???
Here, yes...
There is a direct relationship between the boat WITH bowthruster and the boat without, nothing to do with keel type etc...
the boats WITH bowthrusters seem to be manned by iincompetent morons,,, sorry, but how else does one say it ??
it is a standing joke among the regulars here.. if you hear the dubious cavitation of a bowthruster you know you are in for entertainment...
I submit to the court that bowthrusters are, in the main, unnecessary additions to try to bypass normally learned boat handling skills. it seems the power of the thruster is inversely
proportional to the skill of the skipper.
Flame proof suit donned.................. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Joe

 

[flaming]

Totally agree!

Amazing when you consider just how much own boat tuition a bow thruster would pay for!

 

[orizaba]

ah but you were asleep when we came in,we have found that we can under the right circumstances create mucho entertainment,although others sometimes are able to create more our motto is always enter a marina as early as possible,then when you fk up no one knows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?
mick
we are glad to hear you are still having fun in la coruna

 

[captainslarty]

Hi you old git/.....
Hope you two are great.. how is the new doggy ??????
Joe n Jayne .. BIG hellos to you both

 

[TFJ]

Who's calling us with bow thrusters morons, I see that many morons who come into marina's without fenders on one side, damage other boats, push on guard wires and generally make a hash of things, having a bow thruster available for use is good common sense, in most cases it is not used but it does stop damage when things are tricky or are given a very tight berth
This post is not aimed at the good boat handlers amongst us just the morons who think they can sail and can't, its about time we had a boat handling tests and competitions held by marina's for all new to sailing and the boat owners that we all know about
It may be very nice to see our boats without further damage when we arrive at the marina

Now put your case for no bow thrusters (the morons that is)

Bring it on

Terry

 

[Heigaro]

There is a case to be made for bowthrusters on small sailing cruisers in certain circumstances and I will quote my own.

I have a smallish sailing cruiser which I often sail alone. It is long-keeled so is not the most magical in astern. When I was on a mooring this was no problem because most manoeuvring was done in ahead and there was generally more space.

For various reasons I have now moved into the marina and, out of respect for other people's boats, I have fitted a bow-thruster. This allows me to pin the bows in while I clamber over the guardrails having secured the stern or midships by leaning over to the pontoon cleat. This means that any breeze blowing off the pontoon does not take me over onto my neighbour's boat.

It also means that I have control of the bows while I reverse out of my berth.

I'm not a sensitive soul and have had my share of good-hearted banter about my modification but I do take exception to being referred to as an "incompetent moron".

I'm sure that you don't mean to offend but please rest assured that your boat is safe if I should have to berth close to you in a crowded marina.

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[flaming]

I don't think he said that all people with bow thrusters were incompetent morons, just that most incompetent morons had bowthrusters.
A general trend that I wholeheartedly agree with.

Ask yourself why you have one, Singlehanding a long keel boat in a marina berth? Good idea, marina berths are designed around manouveable fin keelers in order to fit the maximum number of berths in.
Scared yourself once in a bit of breeze in a fin keeler with a nice big marine diesel capable of pushing it along at hull speed? Interesting psycology there, instead of getting tuition you bought the gadget........

 

[TFJ]

Hi

No I didnt have a scary moment or I didnt buy one instead of having tuition
I had one fitted because I want to behave in a sensible and responsible manner
There is nothing wrong with protecting your investment, it a pity the morons dont do the same
By the way I am a RYA instructor whats your excuse

Terry

 

[Richard10002]

Neither!

Not necessarily necessary, but I bought a boat which had one, and find it useful ... particularly singlehanded or with novice crew.

Having had some marina boat handling training, I could almost certainly cope if it failed, but I use it now and then if I havent got a line quite right, or if i want to push the bow in for someone ashore to pick a line off the bow.

Also, in some of the very narrow fairways between pontoons, with a cross wind, it's handy to be able to spin the stern almost into line with the small space allocated, then a burst astern straightens her up, (propwalk), and in she goes.

I'd say handy if you have one, and get one if you can afford it.

 

[flaming]

I am also an RYA instructor.
I have never moored a boat with a bowthruster, and have NEVER caused any damage to any boat whilst mooring (or in any other circumstance actually). The only time I have crewed on a boat with a bowthruster the skipper (a senior instructor) became too pre-occupied with it and had a couple of big hits.

I avoid incidents with planning, knowledge of the limits of my ability and the careful instruction to crew on which warps to concentrate on getting on.

 

[TFJ]

Flaming

Well done, Its a pity there are not more of us about

Bow thrusters are very useful in the right places, yes they are expensive but so are our boats, I dont need to use mine at all but there are times when it is a lot easier

Terry

 

[flaming]

I think in general the original post was about right though, very often muppets have bow thrusters, and they've bought them as a gizmo to solve a problem instead of getting tuition. I'd far rather know that the bloke lining up the berth next to me had been taught how to berth and understood how to judge the effects of wind and tide than know that he has a bow thruster.......

And often when a boat comes in with a lot of shouting and bumping I'm just sat there thinking "that boat is under 40 feet, fin keeled and has a big engine, give me 2 hours with him and I'll teach him to park it in such a way that his bowthruster will sieze up through lack of use."

Though the psychology of mooring is fascinating. I've been sat there with students who are great sailors, good navigators, good skippers to sail with and fun people to have on a boat. And then you ask them to park it. The colour goes out of their face, they start barking clipped commands a world removed from the cool style of leadership they exhibited all day and start trying to do everything in a terrible hurry.
At this point I always try to stop them, and tell them I've changed my mind, and that actually we'll have a cup of tea before we go in. The point being that stopping and thinking about it, talking through the manouver and taking the time to ensure that you're all set is the best way, at least until you're comfortable with your boat and crew and have been sailing together for years.

 

[Sailfree]

[ QUOTE ]
Flaming

Well done, Its a pity there are not more of us about

Bow thrusters are very useful in the right places, yes they are expensive but so are our boats, I dont need to use mine at all but there are times when it is a lot easier

Terry

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree and think the person who originally posted just shows his ignorance about boats.

He appears to be comparing people that would sail Biscay in Winter that would probably have a low freeboard boat with long keel (wet & uncomfortable but tracks to windward excellently) with people that carefully chose the weather they go out in have an AWB which is spacious comfortable (but slams when beating into waves). The AWB will go sideways very easily and very quickly in any cross wind. Any sensible responsible owner would go for a bow thruster once it gets above a certain size (in my case 43') takes pride in berthing as expertly as possible, checks the bowthruster is working prior to berthing with a quick blip each way but then berths without it unless help is needed due to crosswind, crosstide or plain misjudging it and then uses the bowthruster to assist the berthing while ensuring no damage to other boats.

The original poster can be a sneering smug git if he likes but I hope its his boat thats hit by someone not having a bowthruster where frankly the boat is a size that merits one!

I take pride in my berthing ability but I am not stupid enough to not recognise that its foolish not to use a bow thruster when the boat/conditions /circumstances requires one.

Who on here has never c*cked up a berthing?

 

[ShipsWoofy]

[ QUOTE ]
Who on here has never c*cked up a berthing?

[/ QUOTE ]
Me! and I am not even the 'best of the best', that is ,

hush now

shhh

An RYA instructor.

praise be!!!

One can but f*%^ing dream eh!

 

[chrisc]

I have watched many cocked up moorings with bow thrusters this season ,All in favour of them ,as long as they dont hit me,and I can sit in my cockpit and watch. The real problem seems to be that people try to use them to steer the boat rather than the attitude of the boat.ie. swing about C of G. But it all comes down to experience and many of these. boats cocking up are hire boats with insufficient experience of the individual boat.

 

[Danny Jo]

Maybe I'm the exception to prove the rule, but I don't have a bow thruster, my boat is under 40 foot, yet I feel like a complete moron when faced with the task of berthing in a marina in any kind of blow.

My worst experience was in Malahide, sailing in company with eight other boats. We had all left Carlingford at much the same time, but because I had a keel with decent windward performance and a helmsman who knew how to use it, we arrived at Malahide first, in a SW force 5. We shot up the river on the flood and were allocated a visitors' berths on the lee side of a finger. No problem, I thought, wind against current - piece of cake. Big mistake. It is no accident they put the visitors berth up in the Northeast corner. The tide may have been flooding, but there was a fierce eddy from the Southwest. To slow the boat to a reasonably safe ground speed meant more or less zero hull speed. Result - stalled keel and [--word removed--] all steerage when I was barely within throwing distance of the finger. (The nice man from the marina was standing by to assist.) Stalled keel = uncontrollable bow.

We settled for the rather messy procedure of securing a bow line first, allowing the stern to nuzzle up against the boat moored to leeward, then using a sheet winch to pull the stern up to the finger. Everyone else did the sensible thing and refused point blank to attempt docking on the lee side of a finger. I figure that with a bow thruster I would have been able to "reverse" in to the berth by motoring slowly ahead and using the bow thruster to counter the tendency of the bow to blow off downwind.

 

[tudorsailor]

What is the point of this thread. Is the originator against any device that is not completely manual whatever the boat. Is he against an electric windlass on a boat over 40 feet. Does he object to winches etc etc. No doubt he'll object to antibiotics when he next has an infection as they are not natural!

I have a 49 foot yacht that I have to squeeze into a stern to mooring in a tight Meditteranean marina. There is no way this can be done without bow thruster.

Has this thread done anything more than make some feel holier than thou and others just plain irritated?

Pointless

TudorDoc

 

[Danny Jo]

There doesn't seem to be any disagreement that a boat over 40 foot requires a bow thruster to manoeuvre in a marina. The debate is about whether one is really necessary for smaller boats.

Making the observation that many skippers who struggle to moor without incident have bow thrusters is not so much a "holier than thou" statement; rather, the suggestion is that knowing how to handle your boat properly is more important than having a bow thruster.

That would be fair enough, but aren't two of the contributors self-confessed RYA instructors? So that provides a second answer to your question, what is the point of this thread? To drum up business, of course!

/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif (I don't generally like smileys, and I like them less now that I can't find one with its tongue in its cheek.)

 

[orizaba]

a proper stirring of a hornets nest,it appears.captain slarty
all is well with us,will mail later,assume wifi now in corrunna.
still thinking about your post,proper reply later

 

[photodog]

Quite a few years ago I purchased a new 34ft stinkpot, twin engines on outdrives. Just to make sure I had all the gadgets Mr Sealine also sold me a bowthruster.

Anyways, bowthruster was totally OTT, and I was actually ashamed of having it, as the giveaway brrrr brrrr in the marina always was a sure sign of entertainment. So I never actually used it, purely out of macho pride.

ANYWAYS..... Lads long weekend, passing through Salcombe, decided to drop the rubbish off on the big skip that they have afloat.

Bring her in, I lose the plot, and because I have too much pride, I DONT use the thruster, bow swings around, and BONG, I whack the skip, bend pullpit, big gouge, etc.

So pride cometh before the fall.

It doesnt matter how many controls you have, you can still screw it up, and a bowthruster wont get you out of trouble if your incompetent/having a blonde moment/being observed by half of a popular seaside resorts population.

I wouldnt buy one again, waste of cash. Its one too many variables to think about. Totally uneeded on anything smaller than a cross channel ferry. (Despite above)

But I wont condem anyone who has one, after all who am I to judge otherpeoples boat handling? As long as they enjoy themselves and are safe, thats good enough for me.

If you let youself get paranoid about getting banged by others in the marina, or whereever, then your missing the point, we need to forgive others their mooring sins, in the hope that they will forgive ours.

And if it wasnt for the On-season bowthruster equipped crowds, that marina which we enjoy so much in the off, and those other facilities, wouldnt be there. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif