Oceanranger
New member
Bow thrusters are a bit like having stabilisers on a bike.
Bow thrusters, necessary or plain gizmo ???
- Thread starter captainslarty
- Start date
alec
New member
I used to have a berth near the diesel pontoon and the visitors pontoon.
I would mention that I did not have to pay extra for this berth considering the very high entertainment value that it provided. As a single hander and long keeled it was a chance to get some of my own back as well. Oh how I gawped and guffawed !
Seriously, it is not easy parking a large boat in a strange marina with just the wife, 2 knots of tide and a F6 up your arse in driving rain and practically nowhere to turn round.This I think is where a thruster comes into it's own. These large boats can do very serious damage even going slowly.
Generally, I think we all need to be a bit more creative with springs and the like plus sometimes doing things in stages rather than all in one go. Yes, the berth taught me an awful lot.
I would mention that I did not have to pay extra for this berth considering the very high entertainment value that it provided. As a single hander and long keeled it was a chance to get some of my own back as well. Oh how I gawped and guffawed !
Seriously, it is not easy parking a large boat in a strange marina with just the wife, 2 knots of tide and a F6 up your arse in driving rain and practically nowhere to turn round.This I think is where a thruster comes into it's own. These large boats can do very serious damage even going slowly.
Generally, I think we all need to be a bit more creative with springs and the like plus sometimes doing things in stages rather than all in one go. Yes, the berth taught me an awful lot.
iangrant
New member
A nice to have but not to rely on, i still use springing off a my minimal mooring skills without it until i become a moron.
Ian
Ian
alandee
New member
I fitted a bow-thruster to my boat. It didn't cost a great deal as I did a lot of the work myself. It has saved a lot of money on at least a couple of occasions when mooring stern to. My boat has only been damaged twice and that was just after I bought the boat and before I fitted the bow-thruster. Both times it was by an RYA instructor who thought that he knew how to moor up my boat. I am quite capable of ramming a pontoon myself thankyou without paying an instructor to show me how! In a strong cross wind I do not want to damage someone elses pride and joy so I installed a bow-thruster. Will all the forumites who think that people using a bow-thruster are morons please let me know as I approach a new birth in a strong cross wind with a counter current and a dozen mooring chains whilst single handed please contact me on the VHF so that I can switch it off! There are lots of things that you don't need on a boat but they make life easier and sometimes safer if we have them.
captainslarty
N/A
The trouble, as I see it, is one of experience of boathandling. (The topic of RYA qualification level relating to real world experience or indeed ability is surely a long and entirely different thread).
There ARE people who can use a bow thruster well. Unfortunately they are very few and far between. To see a modern fin keeler fully stalled as the person at the helm turns on his axis with said thruster is a joy to behold if one has adequate insurance. The look on the face when the wind takes total control of the boat is usually pained. What happens then is a series of cavitation inducing roars followed by a 90 degree angle to where they want to be. Much use of fenders and a rerun is the order of the day.
Comparing boats out of the 'best' weather window is actaully quite imformative. Many of these older boats have budget limitations that mean such a device is not high on the priorities list. The owner then, in most cases, learns the basic arts of boathandling and specifically THEIR boats characteristics. They then have absolutely no need for such a unit. Too many people seem to be of the persuasion that after a few difficult manouvers they believe a bow thruster is the answer to their needs, it isnt.
There are certainly cases on the larger motor boats where one would assist, the design of these boats is more for ego than seakeeping ability, the high windage from the superstructure makes them a pig if not actually drinking gins and tied up.
We often see people using the gizmo to assist a turn OUT of the marina, in the clear....
Personally I love things that make life easier, I have electric winches, windlass and would fit electric furling on the genny if I could find or adapt a unit to fit mine... We have Joystick control on the autopilot as well as rf remote etc.
Most people who seek some form of tuition on another boat are subjected to many many attempts at berthing on the most remote pontoon, often up a river or away from the marina. They dont learn a lot. The amount of real world approaches made on many 'courses' is minimal due to either the instructors lack of confidence or the desire (obviously but self defeating) to not damage the boat or others around it.
Perhaps if as much attention was payed to real world manouvring in real conditions in real berths as to MOB recovery (The what do we do now ? ah yes, lets throw the fender and bucket over thing) then things would be better. Protecting against MOB is entirely possible, recovery is another thing and a bucket doesnt hack it, better to educate in the correct use of security equipment and reefing at appropriate times as well as deck hamper etc.
I submit that the bow thruster is both unnecessary and detrimental on the vast majority of boats, however, practice at docking is not.
Joe
There ARE people who can use a bow thruster well. Unfortunately they are very few and far between. To see a modern fin keeler fully stalled as the person at the helm turns on his axis with said thruster is a joy to behold if one has adequate insurance. The look on the face when the wind takes total control of the boat is usually pained. What happens then is a series of cavitation inducing roars followed by a 90 degree angle to where they want to be. Much use of fenders and a rerun is the order of the day.
Comparing boats out of the 'best' weather window is actaully quite imformative. Many of these older boats have budget limitations that mean such a device is not high on the priorities list. The owner then, in most cases, learns the basic arts of boathandling and specifically THEIR boats characteristics. They then have absolutely no need for such a unit. Too many people seem to be of the persuasion that after a few difficult manouvers they believe a bow thruster is the answer to their needs, it isnt.
There are certainly cases on the larger motor boats where one would assist, the design of these boats is more for ego than seakeeping ability, the high windage from the superstructure makes them a pig if not actually drinking gins and tied up.
We often see people using the gizmo to assist a turn OUT of the marina, in the clear....
Personally I love things that make life easier, I have electric winches, windlass and would fit electric furling on the genny if I could find or adapt a unit to fit mine... We have Joystick control on the autopilot as well as rf remote etc.
Most people who seek some form of tuition on another boat are subjected to many many attempts at berthing on the most remote pontoon, often up a river or away from the marina. They dont learn a lot. The amount of real world approaches made on many 'courses' is minimal due to either the instructors lack of confidence or the desire (obviously but self defeating) to not damage the boat or others around it.
Perhaps if as much attention was payed to real world manouvring in real conditions in real berths as to MOB recovery (The what do we do now ? ah yes, lets throw the fender and bucket over thing) then things would be better. Protecting against MOB is entirely possible, recovery is another thing and a bucket doesnt hack it, better to educate in the correct use of security equipment and reefing at appropriate times as well as deck hamper etc.
I submit that the bow thruster is both unnecessary and detrimental on the vast majority of boats, however, practice at docking is not.
Joe
jaustenstock
New member
Hi all, interesting debate, I had a bowthruster fitted to my Jeanneau 32 because with twin rudders it has no prop wash so it was very difficult to manouvre/control in marinas, now no problem but it did take practice. As they become ever more popular perhaps the RYA courses should included the bowthruster
I bet real sailors had the same debate when engines, plastic boats,radar etc were introduced but who would be without them now!
I bet real sailors had the same debate when engines, plastic boats,radar etc were introduced but who would be without them now!
chuns
New member
It\'s not the bowthruster that is the problem...
...it is the user.
When they are used as a first resort, not a last resort, they show that basic boat-handling skills are missing.
So they will never be acquired by practice.
So the dependency on them is increased.
Round and round we go....
...it is the user.
When they are used as a first resort, not a last resort, they show that basic boat-handling skills are missing.
So they will never be acquired by practice.
So the dependency on them is increased.
Round and round we go....
DipperToo
Active member
Re: It\'s not the bowthruster that is the problem...
Very interesting thread - especially as many different types of boat are mentioned. I too was against a bow thruster and after many years became 'one' with the previous boat. This year we got a new twin rudder 35 ft and yes, we also had some additional instruction in a marina. Many of the previous 'techniques' using prop wash had to be forgotten.
Interestingly, the only way to get any control at low speed was to almost introduce cavitation to get water moving under the boat with short bursts on the engine - the outer edges of the water movement just catching the rudders. Yes, we get some looks from others but it does seem to work. With narrow spaces between pontoons and any cross wind, the bow thruster used judiciously certainly improves things somewhat - and protects both my boat and others from any potential mishap.
Anyone have good sources of additional information for twin rudder handling to supplement 'practice and more practice'? I quite often spend time in a marina on quiet days trying different mooring methods, turning in small circles at low speed etc without the bow thruster - but it is nice to have as a supplemental aid should the need arise - especially if short handed.
Very interesting thread - especially as many different types of boat are mentioned. I too was against a bow thruster and after many years became 'one' with the previous boat. This year we got a new twin rudder 35 ft and yes, we also had some additional instruction in a marina. Many of the previous 'techniques' using prop wash had to be forgotten.
Interestingly, the only way to get any control at low speed was to almost introduce cavitation to get water moving under the boat with short bursts on the engine - the outer edges of the water movement just catching the rudders. Yes, we get some looks from others but it does seem to work. With narrow spaces between pontoons and any cross wind, the bow thruster used judiciously certainly improves things somewhat - and protects both my boat and others from any potential mishap.
Anyone have good sources of additional information for twin rudder handling to supplement 'practice and more practice'? I quite often spend time in a marina on quiet days trying different mooring methods, turning in small circles at low speed etc without the bow thruster - but it is nice to have as a supplemental aid should the need arise - especially if short handed.
alant
Active member
"There doesn't seem to be any disagreement that a boat over 40 foot requires a bow thruster to manoeuvre in a marina."
A few years ago, an ex-student of mine, straight off comp crew thru to DS course, decided to become a live-aboard in the Med & bought a 46' Gibsea (for singlehanding). I spent a week with him, checking the boat out, giving him a bit more tuition & was told he intended post-fitting a 'necessary' bow thruster at a staggering quoted cost of £5-6K.
Appalled, by cost & possible problems caused in post fitting, I gave him a few more hours boat handling/mooring stern too lessons & this convinced him that he did not need a bow thruster & spent the money on other gear. As far as I'm aware, he is still sans thruster & has sailed single handed from one end of the Med to the other, without hitting anything.
PS he is still 'only' a Day Skipper (but obviously more skilled than many YM's) & does go into Marina's (different ones, so he needs to consider 'how' perhaps more than someone knowing his regular berth conditions).
Personally, if I'm on a vessel with a BT, I switch it on, but more often than not, forget its there & berth as normal. It can be a distraction for me, with the obvious potential for cocking up because I'm possibly not concentrating on what I should be doing.
If I had a permanent boat with BT, I probably would end up always using it perhaps. Bit like always adding up manually, then finding you can't do it without a calculator.
A few years ago, an ex-student of mine, straight off comp crew thru to DS course, decided to become a live-aboard in the Med & bought a 46' Gibsea (for singlehanding). I spent a week with him, checking the boat out, giving him a bit more tuition & was told he intended post-fitting a 'necessary' bow thruster at a staggering quoted cost of £5-6K.
Appalled, by cost & possible problems caused in post fitting, I gave him a few more hours boat handling/mooring stern too lessons & this convinced him that he did not need a bow thruster & spent the money on other gear. As far as I'm aware, he is still sans thruster & has sailed single handed from one end of the Med to the other, without hitting anything.
PS he is still 'only' a Day Skipper (but obviously more skilled than many YM's) & does go into Marina's (different ones, so he needs to consider 'how' perhaps more than someone knowing his regular berth conditions).
Personally, if I'm on a vessel with a BT, I switch it on, but more often than not, forget its there & berth as normal. It can be a distraction for me, with the obvious potential for cocking up because I'm possibly not concentrating on what I should be doing.
If I had a permanent boat with BT, I probably would end up always using it perhaps. Bit like always adding up manually, then finding you can't do it without a calculator.
steve_cronin
N/A
SO! You choose to mock the coffee grinder brigade?
Well,
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
I TOTALLY agree with you.
Then there is the issue of taking a bite out of the boat at a vital point in it's structure.
Steve Cronin
Well,
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
I TOTALLY agree with you.
Then there is the issue of taking a bite out of the boat at a vital point in it's structure.
Steve Cronin