ghostlymoron
Well-known member
It's time to start a new thread unless your just seeking a record number of posts. Which boat has a new skeg and which the rusty keels?
Bought a Never splashed Colvic Countess 33 on eBay, Looking for infos
- Thread starter GregOddity
- Start date
GregOddity
Well-known member
My money is on that not happening. Will you be putting in a practice one on Selkie first.
Ho dear don’t place too much money on it. (hint hint )
Sadly, we won’t be putting one on Selkie until Oddity is ready. We’re just rushing to finish her so we can concentrate on Oddity. But we already have a gen unit for selkie, the plan is to gather all that’s necessary as we plod along with Oddity and when Oddity is finished, we will install it on Selkie.
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GregOddity
Well-known member
We’ve had an utterly bizarre definition of efficiency involving the second hand price of an engine. Marine engines are described as overpriced and obsolete. We’ve learned that the world is spending billions and racing to achieve hybrid drives for yachts, yet Greg is going to build one successfully with no prior knowledge, from mismatched components obtained for little money from eBay. Requested advice and counsel has been given freely by knowledgeable and expresienced professionals but it has been dismissed.
This is a parallel universe thread to the Steel boat postings by Bret Swain. Is this your Alter Ego, Greg ?
I must admit you caught me! I do live in a parallel universe. I will promptly listen to all the “advice” given by the “professionals” ( of which I AM one ) and return to the fold of the “common sense” of Sailing the way others think I should.
I will give said advice the proper consideration it merits. Framed in the utmost respect I possess.
I hope you don’t mind me doing this while we build our Hybrid Drive and sail away with it?
By the way I was just looking for advice on Props.
GregOddity
Well-known member
I kind a like this thread, its confused, full of good advice and fun to spend time on. Just like my mind, except without the voices…
GregOddity
Well-known member
I did look at them, but we’re dead set on going Hybrid and the prices although interesting are still outside of what we want to spend on the drive train.
But I do appreciate the posting with a PRICE instead of the usual dark art of most others.
That's a +1 for good business conduct.
PaulRainbow
Well-known member
My money is on that not happening. Will you be putting in a practice one on Selkie first.
The only way Oddity will see any blue water is if Greg sticks a hose in through a hatch and squirts some blue bubble bath in
Spyro
Well-known member
The only way Oddity will see any blue water is if Greg sticks a hose in through a hatch and squirts some blue bubble bath in
I wouldn't put anything past him. It just gets more bizarre. First he bought a boat that everyone told him he'd never do in the time scale or budget (haven't heard much about that lately) then he buys another to practice on. Now he talks of getting the first one ready again and sailing off into the blue yonder (or motoring at 2.5 knots for up to 2 hours) but also says once he's got Oddity done he's going to put an electric drive into Selkie. You couldn't make this up but someone is having a good go.
GregOddity
Well-known member
The only way Oddity will see any blue water is if Greg sticks a hose in through a hatch and squirts some blue bubble bath in
Hehe now that’s a nice idea :encouragement: I would not put that past me.
GregOddity
Well-known member
The world is a really bizarre place. I can assure you that. You should only see the faces of every Tourist or foreigner that asks for Fish & Chips and gets mushy peas on it.
And yet I do try and respect the right of you doing whatever you want with your fish.
I have listened many times to people explaining why they think Mushy Peas should even be considered with a batter fried cod. I’ve listened and really tried to see the argument behind it. In my mind there is no single sensible reason why someone should hate a fish so much. Yet I truly respect the fact that some people actually WANT to do such a senseless act. It harms no one and it is their fish. I will still pass on the Mushy Peas on my Cod.
It would seem rather sensible if you could do the same.
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anoccasionalyachtsman
Well-known member
I gave you a hint in #1122.
I take it that you'll be keeping the car gearbox (albeit with a welded up diff) so you should find a ratio to suit a very slow revving engine and a normal speed prop.
NormanS
Well-known member
GregOddity
Well-known member
That is the strongest possibility. On the props we've been looking at the German made folding props but more out of curiosity then knowledge as we're still embroiled on the small matter of matching the all thing to a prop. We're building a Parallel drive train so both motors will be connected to the shaft. Having said that the whole is purely academic at the current moment as we are more preoccupied in getting a good design for the system. The engine is a fluid thing as it depends on price alone. cheaper the motor the more batteries we can afford. But I will post all that in more detail in March when we get to it. At the moment we got plenty going on.
GregOddity
Well-known member
Why not keep the diff, complete with half shafts, and fit paddles?
We actually thought of fitting 3 rows of oars and making it completely green but alas we were told that the Trireme model of propulsion was outdated and probably illegal. Plus it costs a fortune to feed the rowers even on scraps and the drummer charges an absolute fortune.
NormanS
Well-known member
GregOddity
Well-known member
Glad that you explored that possibility. It's good to have an open mind.
Trust me when i say that looking at the Brexit thing and how people talk about it you NEED an open mind.
NormanB
Well-known member
Greg
It may help bring clarity to the design solution if you built a basic block diagram which identified the key components, their parameters and costs. It appears you want a sub £6K budget so say start with a £5K envelope and build the diagram from the prop up. If you assumed you needed 35HP at the prop (not unreasonable) which I believe is equivalent to around 26KW and work the block diagram up from there
The problem you have with regeneration is that with a short monohull and a dedicated ‘regeneration’ propellor you need to be averaging 5knots + before you generate anything remotely useful, If you were in a CAT then you would be likely to be sailing at a much higher average speed and thus regenerate useful quantities of power. A propellor optimised for regeneration will be rubbish at pushing the boat through the water.
GregOddity
Well-known member
Some IDIOT that shall remain unnamed (>>>me <<<) while in a rush to get the mast up, still had the time to not even touch the Lithium grease that was just in front of him and instead got up, went to the boat, got the marine grease tube out and … filled the roller on the Genoa furler with it…
Now I shall have the absolute pleasure of getting the sail down, and somehow wash that thing making a mess of the all boat that I then will get to clean and make shine after a weekend of cleaning and making shine.
Can hardly move the thing as it is with that grease.
Now cup of tea. Sails up and runnning rigging all sorted.
Now cup of tea. Sails up and running rigging all sorted.
Now I shall have the absolute pleasure of getting the sail down, and somehow wash that thing making a mess of the all boat that I then will get to clean and make shine after a weekend of cleaning and making shine.
Can hardly move the thing as it is with that grease.
Now cup of tea. Sails up and runnning rigging all sorted.
Now cup of tea. Sails up and running rigging all sorted.
GregOddity
Well-known member
Thanks Norman, very good advice. Our average speed is probably going to be between 4.6 and 5.7 from what I heard. That’s from a Colvic Countess 33 bilge keels that sailed mainly coastal. I’m hopeful but not counting on it being much above that. It is a very full-bodied boat. And although we’re going to try to extend the mast and improve the sail area we're perhaps going to be able to squeeze a knot out of it in ideal conditions. From all that I researched so far, the regeneration on this boat is not going to work to our advantage. Which in turn is pointing us to instead optimise the propeller for close quarters / reverse and blue water.
We’re designing a parallel drive train with a power split so that we can maximise the use of the Diesel at low RPM’s and low loads and do engine cycling. As such we can have the most out of an Hybrid System and free the prop while cruising on sail. Off course we’re submerged on the all thematic of not making the hybrid system less efficient then the Diesel is.
Diesel > Power split > Propeller
-------------------- V --------------
Battery bank <>Charge controller /Motor <>Generator/ Motor
This is based on the assumption that were needing 1.5 Kw to 3 Kw for a 10 ton boat at an average of 5 knots. We assumed 45 /50 Hp to give us that little extra Humpf for hard seas or manoeuvring. was not able to factor the KW on the prop ( snag )
As I said previously, we have not yet got into the prop and that is why we’re holding until we can match a prop to the boat and build the system from the prop up. We did hit that snag last week.
The idea being to have a buffer for the energy storage that could get the boat in and out of harbour and charging on mains but yet retain the advantage of being able to use direct AC to the motor should we wish/need. There will be situations in which we will have to motor for long periods and for that we intend the direct AC to motor and max power on Diesel.
So far its in the project phase.
Were hunting for a Prop
BEFORE YOU ALL JUMP IN! this is a project being planned it may very well all change or get updated with new figures depending on components chosen and proper calculations being made. At this stage there are just very basic notions on the design.
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NormanB
Well-known member
You are going to need much more than 3KW to get 5 knots - clearly I do not know exactly but it is likely to be more like 18KW/24 HP.
I cannot pretend to understand the rest of what you are proposing. That’s why I suggested a block diagram. ;-)
I cannot pretend to understand the rest of what you are proposing. That’s why I suggested a block diagram. ;-)
anoccasionalyachtsman
Well-known member
Greg, if you can even think that 3kw might be OK for 5kts in a 10 ton boat you really ought to be asking for help rather than pretending you know what you're doing. You're just making an idiot of yourself, and believe it or not, most of us want to help.
