Boot Düsseldorf 2019

If looking at manhatten 66 and princess f70 then surely got to wait until squadron 64 is out. From looking at plans I think the squadron 64 has by far the best flybridge layout. manhatten 66 flybridge is slightly disappointing for me as is f70 looking at the plan. However it's living accom is better as no bunk beds and separate stairs to master which I do like now. F70 is slightly to wide for me to get in 5.5m wide berth including fenders.

Hopefully squadron 64 is at Düsseldorf next year then can compare with princess, sunseeker, ferreti, pearl, etc

Hopefully
 
PowerYachtBlog said:
Elling is GRP. I am sure Mike is speaking about Steeler, Wim Van der Valk (very nice new aft cabin from them), and Mulder. To name a few of my head.
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Yes I was talking about brands like that and some of their boats do have large twin diesels in them. In fact Elling is unusual for a Dutch builder because they do build in GRP

Both Steel and wood are much expensive to GRP.
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Are they? As I said how come the Dutch builders manage to keep their products competitive? I think it is more to do with the fact that the steel fabrication skills still exist in Holland but they have been lost in other countries
 
MapisM said:
1) sizewise, as I said my DP is almost identical to the F55. But she has no hilo platform, so the WLL is actually longer. By 3 feet or so, I would guess? The same goes for the M52, btw..
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This is one of my bugbears about modern boats. Before hi/lo platforms came along, many builders extended their hulls below the bathing platform to maximise waterline length and therefore maximise head sea performance. I understand that nowadays punters want a hi/lo platform but, in order to incorporate one, the hull has to stop short of the bathing platform and waterline length is reduced. Maybe I'm in a minority but that is not a compromise I'm willing to make for the dubious pleasure of buying a new boat
 
TonyR123 said:
If looking at manhatten 66 and princess f70 then surely got to wait until squadron 64 is out. From looking at plans I think the squadron 64 has by far the best flybridge layout. manhatten 66 flybridge is slightly disappointing for me as is f70 looking at the plan. However it's living accom is better as no bunk beds and separate stairs to master which I do like now. F70 is slightly to wide for me to get in 5.5m wide berth including fenders.

Hopefully squadron 64 is at Düsseldorf next year then can compare with princess, sunseeker, ferreti, pearl, etc

Hopefully
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We werent impressed by the Man66 either. It seems to me that in order to differentiate the Yacht range from the Manhattan range, Sunseeker decided to build the Manhattan range to a lower level of fit and finish. If I was in the market for a 60-70' motorboat I would definitely not want to feel that I was buying the poor man's version

Yes the Sq64 is going to be a strong competitor in this market. I particularly like the fact that the Sq64 has 4700 litres of fuel capacity which is 1000-1500 litres more than the competition and I hope is an indication that Fairline see this boat as a proper passagemaker rather than a floating condo. A further indication of that might be the displacement which is rather on the porky side according to the dimensions on the website and for me, that is a positive not a negative. The flybridge layout does look superb but if there is one thing I would criticise it is that they havent been able to squeeze in a dinette opposite the galley (at least according to the plans on their website). A boat of this type and size should have separate areas for eating and lounging

Another criticism I would have of all these boats is that none of them feature internal steps to the flybridge, something I've got very accustomed to on my Ferrettis but even Ferretti have ditched them in this size range now so maybe I'm in a minority on that one
 
TonyR123 said:
If looking at manhatten 66 and princess f70 then surely got to wait until squadron 64 is out.
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Obviously I can only comment on what I saw at Düsseldorf this time round. If Fairline has a new boat next year I'll be all over it. I didn't actually go on the Fairline stand this time. If I'm being totally honest within my sweet spot they missed the mark with the Squadron 53. I was really looking forward to what they brought to the table but felt it was still essentially a 1990's boat in terms of interior volume. A lovely fit out, not unlike the Riva Ribelle but the cockpit is long, the saloon small and the whole thing felt narrow compared to the Princess, Sunseeker or indeed Ferretti here. Where they do score is their willingness to customise and the possibility of a 4 cabin version but neither of those are required for our particular application.

The Squadron 65 is obviously quite long in the tooth now. I've said before on here that it's big enough to offer some good accommodation but it feels much more enclosed without the vast glass walls of a modern boat and has been left behind by what's out there. I still remember chatting for 10 minutes in the vast engine room at Swanwick a few years ago so I'm sure there is a market. It will be interesting to see what Fairline come up with as a solution for it's replacement now they are settled down and fully re-established.

This is going to sound crazy but I don't actually place a massive emphasis on flybridge layout when looking at flybridge boats. For me it's the cockpit space that makes a flybridge so great. What I do value is the upper helm position and that's why I'm so hard on the Sunseeker and other builders who set their helm stations too far back or put lounging areas in front of it. For us the Princess flybridge space works well. Is it because we've learned to work around it or is it a fundamentally good design? Who knows....

Henry :)
 
Deleted User said:
I think it is more to do with the fact that the steel fabrication skills still exist in Holland but they have been lost in other countries
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If you have the right technology and full integration with the design process I suspect steel fabrication can be economic. Investment in that technology is probably very expensive though. Seeing a metal hull in the raw is a joy.

Henry :)
 
Deleted User said:
Another criticism I would have of all these boats is that none of them feature internal steps to the flybridge, something I've got very accustomed to on my Ferrettis but even Ferretti have ditched them in this size range now so maybe I'm in a minority on that one
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Being of a younger generation in my late 20's I have never lived through the internal steps era but I do have a question. Why do boats not feature a dumb waiter system? I don't want stairs getting in the way but I'd love an easy way of transporting food, drink and stuff between upper and lower areas. It's also a lot safer than trying carry things.

Henry :)
 
henryf said:
This is going to sound crazy but I don't actually place a massive emphasis on flybridge layout when looking at flybridge boats. For me it's the cockpit space that makes a flybridge so great. What I do value is the upper helm position and that's why I'm so hard on the Sunseeker and other builders who set their helm stations too far back or put lounging areas in front of it. For us the Princess flybridge space works well. Is it because we've learned to work around it or is it a fundamentally good design? Who knows....
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Thats a Med v N Europe thing. You spend far more time on the flybridge with a Med based boat and the layout then becomes very important in that you need a large seating area under the bimini or hard top for eating/drinking and a large sunpad away from the shade of the bimini/hardtop for sunbathing. Not all builders get that right

Being of a younger generation in my late 20's I have never lived through the internal steps era but I do have a question. Why do boats not feature a dumb waiter system? I don't want stairs getting in the way but I'd love an easy way of transporting food, drink and stuff between upper and lower areas. It's also a lot safer than trying carry things
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Apart from the convenience of moving between both helm positions easily and quickly, IMHO the internal steps have one big safety advantage with young kids on board who in my experience tend to get bored easily and want to move between saloon and flybridge constantly. If you just have external steps they are out of your sight when moving between saloon and flybridge. If we have young kids on our boat, we tend to lock the cockpit doors underway so that they are forced to use the internal steps and they are always within view

Yes a dumb waiter is a very good idea and I dont know why boat builders dont incorporate them because it wouldnt be a big cost. IIRC I've only ever seen one on a boat and that was on a Fleming and even then it was by special request of the buyer
 
Deleted User said:
Apart from the convenience of moving between both helm positions easily and quickly, IMHO the internal steps have one big safety advantage with young kids on board who in my experience tend to get bored easily and want to move between saloon and flybridge constantly. If you just have external steps they are out of your sight when moving between saloon and flybridge. If we have young kids on our boat, we tend to lock the cockpit doors underway so that they are forced to use the internal steps and they are always within view

Yes a dumb waiter is a very good idea and I dont know why boat builders dont incorporate them because it wouldnt be a big cost. IIRC I've only ever seen one on a boat and that was on a Fleming and even then it was by special request of the buyer
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I understand the safety argument, our kids are either up or down. If down they know not to come out unless they call us first, we use walkie talkies, I also have a camera on the cockpit doors which is also on my plotter when they are downstairs.
I suspect the fact that many boats now have aft galleys the transfer of food and stuff is much easier and would in fact be harder with an internal stairs.
 
Thanks for the answers. I've enjoyed the two extremes of UK boating and South East Asian boating but never the middle ground of Med boating.

Henry :)
 
NGM said:
I suspect the fact that many boats now have aft galleys the transfer of food and stuff is much easier and would in fact be harder with an internal stairs.
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Not true in our case. We have an aft galley and tend to use the internal steps to transfer food upstairs because the internal stairs are located in the forward part of the saloon on a higher level so the number of steps up/down is smaller. In fact I can stand on the bottom step and reach up through the hole to put plates on the flybridge without any help. A bit like a dumb waiter, only a live one;)
 
Deleted User said:
In fact I can stand on the bottom step and reach up through the hole to put plates on the flybridge without any help. A bit like a dumb waiter, only a live one;)
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There you go Mike, I've always said that we are all of us good for something, it just takes some of us longer than others to find it out! :encouragement:
 
rafiki_ said:
There you go Mike, I've always said that we are all of us good for something, it just takes some of us longer than others to find it out! :encouragement:
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You sound just like my SWMBO;)
 
re - flybridges - I am more in line with HenryF on this even as a med boater. I (we) find that setting everything up on the flybridge for a meal etc is just a pain in the ar@e. If you get any rolling it's magnified by the height of the flybridge and your sausages on the BBQ end up on the floor (or more likely on my boat, in the dog)
These days I much prefer a spacious cockpit for entertaining/dining. Handy for the big fridge and not far from the loo. (you can pick up a few more beers on the way back) If you have children on board, its easy to keep and eye/ear on them and they can't get up to too much mischief either. The flybridge is for sunbathing and cruising.
 
kashurst said:
re - flybridges - I am more in line with HenryF on this even as a med boater. I (we) find that setting everything up on the flybridge for a meal etc is just a pain in the ar@e. If you get any rolling it's magnified by the height of the flybridge and your sausages on the BBQ end up on the floor (or more likely on my boat, in the dog)
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Get a Seakeeper;)
 
henryf said:
I don't want stairs getting in the way
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You should try a boat with no stair or ladder in the cockpit, then.
THAT is something which gets in the way - we are just so used to it, that we fail to appreciate how much better the cockpit can be without it.
And I'm not talking of mickey mouse boats, mind: clue Canados, Sanlorenzo, etc.
 
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