Boot Düsseldorf 2019

[Deleted User YDKXO]

it quotes 23 top speed, so v unlikely to get close to that, seems likely it has been designed to spend it's time in 10-18 knt range.
I'd be surprised that on a £8m boat with top end fit out and respected design that they chose the engines purely to boost bottom line but maybe you're right.

Thats really my point too. A builder like SL doesnt really need to compete head on with other builders on price so the commercial imperative to consider IPS wouldnt really have been there in the same way as with more mainstream builders. This is a total guess but it is possible that fitting 3 IPS drives with what are relatively small engines allows the cockpit height to be lower than with 2 shaft drives with larger engines. One of the selling points of the boat seems to be the 'beach club' cockpit/bathing platform so maybe the designer was looking for a cockpit deck level as low as possible? Just a thought and probably bollox!

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Well, you might remember that I'm a supporter of SL as a builder, generally speaking.
But in an interview, Perotti declared (in a nutshell) that the SX line is targeted at the sons of their traditional clients.
Just read between the lines....

Blimey, lucky sons! A SX88 would be some 21st birthday present from Dad

 

[NGM]

Thats really my point too. A builder like SL doesnt really need to compete head on with other builders on price so the commercial imperative to consider IPS wouldnt really have been there in the same way as with more mainstream builders. This is a total guess but it is possible that fitting 3 IPS drives with what are relatively small engines allows the cockpit height to be lower than with 2 shaft drives with larger engines. One of the selling points of the boat seems to be the 'beach club' cockpit/bathing platform so maybe the designer was looking for a cockpit deck level as low as possible? Just a thought and probably bollox!

Something like that would make much more sense, I'm not sure i buy the sons of their traditional clients anecdote. If it were true it would be the most foolish business logic from a brand of that pedigree.

 

[petem]

Can you run it with just the inner pod and / or the outer two at slow speeds?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Something like that would make much more sense, I'm not sure i buy the sons of their traditional clients anecdote. If it were true it would be the most foolish business logic from a brand of that pedigree.

Not sure I agree. Surely the business logic is to catch them young and keep them loyal to the brand as they get older. Maybe SL are concerned that the age profile of their average buyer is too old and for that reason, the average buyer only buys one or two SLs before they croak instead of becoming a customer at an earlier age and buying several. Again just a thought

 

[MapisM]

I'm not sure i buy the sons of their traditional clients anecdote. If it were true it would be the most foolish business logic from a brand of that pedigree.

Well, I'm pretty sure to have read that some time ago in an interview to Perotti published on some (IT) website, but I can't for the life of me remember where it was, and neither I found it by googling around a bit.
I don't think it was just an anecdoctic statement, anyway.
I'm sure that there must be a market out there for wealthy young folks who appreciate the "party boat" approach - in fact, the thing is selling faster than they can build it, afaik...

 

[NGM]

Not sure I agree. Surely the business logic is to catch them young and keep them loyal to the brand as they get older. Maybe SL are concerned that the age profile of their average buyer is too old and for that reason, the average buyer only buys one or two SLs before they croak instead of becoming a customer at an earlier age and buying several. Again just a thought

Sorry perhaps I wasn't clear,. I'm not doubting the plan to create a model that may appeal to a younger client set with beach club et al and they equally may be son's of v wealthy existing clients. However, I'd be surprised that they then decided to play on their clients presumed naivety by sticking on pods to boost profits. I'm much more inclined to think there was a logical design need.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I'm much more inclined to think there was a logical design need.

Agreed in SL's case

 

[MapisM]

I'm much more inclined to think there was a logical design need.

I didn't say there's none, but since you started dismissing the most popular ones like more interior space and maneuverability, I thought to throw in another logical need which is - hands down - the most appreciated by all builders.
And with all respect for SL, I see no reason why they should be an exception...

 

[Portofino]

It’s not my cup of tea on several levels ,but respect to SL for pushing the envelope and creating a market , adding another a string to the bow etc .

I wound,t be surprised if Donald Tusk was a boater , he,s blurt out

special place in hell" for "those at SL who / designed promoted SL 88 without even a sketch of a plan of how to use it ".



I,ll get my coat !

 

[TheOrs]

PS: just in case the above isn't yet clear enough, there is no offset of the vertical component, in a twin installation.
It's actually the other way round: when steering say to port, the vertical thrust introduced by port pod pulls the hull down on port side, while stbd pod pulls the hull up on stbd side - hence both concur in making the boat list to port, much more than she would do for the steering alone.

I'm probably being thick but isn't the solution on a two pod boat to have a flat (parallel to water surface) section of hull where the pod fits and flair it in as it runs forward/aft? Slightly slower but nicer handling?

 

[MapisM]

Well, in a sense that's what VP suggests to yards interested to adopt IPS.
But it's not like planning hulls have always been V-shaped all the way to the stern for no reason.
In practice, to make the hull flat where the pods stick out, at least one third of the whole hull should be flat.
And if it were, you could flair it as it runs forward (it would make no sense to flair it also aft) as much as you wish, but you would still get a lemon of a boat.
Bottom line, what builders usually do is compromise - i.e., trade a bit of seakeeping (deeper V) for a much cheaper construction.
Just look at the following pic previously posted by henryf: even if the SX88 hull afaik was specifically designed for IPS from scratch, it's essentially still a plain vanilla P hull.
Not a deep one of course, because on top of having to accomodate the pods, the boat is not meant to be a speed demon.
But essentially, a P hull with IPS it is - nothing new under the sun, in this respect.
Calling it a revolutionary SD design, as other builders already did with the rest of wannabe trawlers, is just part of the usual marketing bs.

 

[Bouba]

Yes, trawler is more about the above water profile than the underwater profile. A Navetta 52 (top of my wish list) is like a block of flats. Then there are more streamlined trawlers, these are called lifestyle trawlers. Then there are the traditional, Grand Banks style trawlers. Then there are boats that catch fish.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Agreed - as already debated in this previous thread.
Otoh, even if IPS are right at the top of my personal OMDB list rolleyes, I believe that there's some technical logic in triple installations, aside from the need for enough power.
In fact, the fundamental flow of IPS is that they are designed for planing boats, whose hulls are V-shaped.
But rather than considering this very obvious constraint, VP thought that asking boatbuilders to make flatter hull sections in the area where IPS pods must be positioned was a good enough workaround for reducing the listing introduced by diagonal thrust upon steering - with results spanning anywhere from barely acceptable to downright dangerous.
Now, think about it: with triple installation, there is one third of the total thrust which is never diverted diagonally, and that contributes to limit the pod-generated listing.
Which is the last thing you want on such a big boat, and that could possibly be difficult to eliminate even for the fin stabs.

At 20-23 knots the Sanlorenzo does not have the listing problem. I think SL with SX decided to switch to IPS for a variety of reasons, first all for the following theI IPS have especially with North EU and USA customers.
The Scandinavian and new USA boaters who are buying big boats are sold to it, just as kids are sold on Iphones and for them it is the only thing that exists and works.
They do not want captains to drive there boats, and with IPS this feels easy for them.

The SX is a semi-planning hull form. Now if just because it goes above twenty knots then it is not a semi-planning for some forums member, then we are a bit screwed. The speed is IMO more of you need ###hp to make so much knots under way. BTW Grand Banks (Heritage) have been doing around 25 knots since the late eighties.
Even pilot boats and some tug boats do 25 knots, it is all a question of how much HP vs displacement you put into the thing. She will not be very efficient once you go above 20 knots that is sure, but they can do it.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Sanlorenzo SX88.

I didn’t actually look round this but saw it from various vantage points around the show. Very striking visually with not one, not two but three IPS drive units. Might it be said that something has gone wrong when you have to whack 3 engines in a boat?

I gotta say this, that if it was a Princess for you it would have been the boating gift of 2019 and the next decade....
Btw engines rarely whack together, they actually never do.

 

[henryf]

I wasn't suggesting they would make contact with each other. If you whack something on it just means putting it on or fitting it. So I was asking peoples thoughts on fitting 3 engines to a boat but in a slightly amusing way. Or trying to

I hope I'm not blinded by Princess as a brand. There have been models which I am less keen on over the years and you will note I have said nothing about the X95. But in general I do think they build a boat which works for us. I identify with their design choices and find their aesthetic very pleasing.

Henry

 

[jrudge]

Personally I would not buy 3 engines.

a. 3 lots of servicing
b. 3 lots of stuff to go wrong
c. Two people in the industry told me the middle engine tends to cook when I discussed the Pearl ( I am sure there is a way round it
d. A friend has a triple engine 80 odd foot Sunseeker on Arnston drives. It is worth almost nothing and uses staggering amounts of fuel!

 

[Portofino]

Personally I would not buy 3 engines.

a. 3 lots of servicing
b. 3 lots of stuff to go wrong
c. Two people in the industry told me the middle engine tends to cook when I discussed the Pearl ( I am sure there is a way round it
d. A friend has a triple engine 80 odd foot Sunseeker on Arnston drives. It is worth almost nothing and uses staggering amounts of fuel!

Not tempted by a quad ?
One has to be almost an engineering numpty to end up with one of theses

https://www.powerandmotoryacht.com/boat-tests/lazzara-lsx-quad-75.

Or a computer geek who can navigate his / her self around a vodia diagnostic laptop with ease .———-and enjoys doing that type of stuff .

 

[IDAMAY]

Having looked through all the photographs I think the only boat that has any fiddles is the Navetta, which may be the only justification it has for the "trawler" designation. I may be wrong about this as it is quite hard to differentiate between changes in material or colour. This despite the excellent photography. Also there appear to be an awful lot of sharp edges set at heights that might, in a seaway, interfere with delicate parts of the anatomy. Anyway, it suggests to me that these boats are more floating condo than serious cruisers but if that's what the buying public wants...….


Thanks for the very interesting and informative reports, Henry. It looks a great show.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Having looked through all the photographs I think the only boat that has any fiddles is the Navetta, which may be the only justification it has for the "trawler" designation. I may be wrong about this as it is quite hard to differentiate between changes in material or colour. This despite the excellent photography. Also there appear to be an awful lot of sharp edges set at heights that might, in a seaway, interfere with delicate parts of the anatomy. Anyway, it suggests to me that these boats are more floating condo than serious cruisers but if that's what the buying public wants...….
.

Agree with that. Just another reason why new boats are not as good as old ones in many ways. However if thats what the average new boat customer is willing to accept then who are we to criticise