Boom Roller System with Boltrope vs Regular Boom with reefing lines and slugs?

[DangerousPirate]

In mast rolling systems are a totally different game than old style rolling boom ones.

I converted mine to slab reefing now and it's just so much better. I had really bad experience sailing in bit of a storm and trying to get the sail down and because I was thrown around and stuff constantly got got caught somewhere and the main was already lead to the cockpit through the sprayhood (previous owner did that, maybe were in the middle of converting, maybe just had two people) it was majorily annoying, it took me 20 minutes to take it down without losing control while drifting towards a big rock outside the harbour entrance (think it was near troon?).

Never again.

Here is the boat before the conversion, boom roller like this. Handle on the other side, main wrapped on the outside of the boom

 

[DoubleEnder]

Thank you. Got it

Needs to be fatter at the clew end. But rather than tapering the boom itself, it was common to fit two very long wedge shapes on either side of the boom - full size at the back and tapering to near nothing about mid way along.
Size depended on boat but perhaps an inch square at end in 22 footer. More on bigger boat

 

[DoubleEnder]

Drifting now, but I’m curious that so many people like the arrangement where slab reefs are handled from the cockpit. I have sailed in two modern yachts with this arrangement, both around 35 feet, with good quality branded components and I hated it. Seemed like a huge amount of friction, so that everything needed winching. Ok, there are winches, but it felt bad to me. And these are well known mass produced mainstream yachts, not some owner’s lash up using bits from the skip. As far as I can see they are both well maintained. The line looked right size and was not stiff and green. I just think when you have so many turning blocks you end up with a festival of friction

 

[Refueler]

Personally - I don't think there is a one fits all reefing system that covers all ....

 

[B27]

Drifting now, but I’m curious that so many people like the arrangement where slab reefs are handled from the cockpit. I have sailed in two modern yachts with this arrangement, both around 35 feet, with good quality branded components and I hated it. Seemed like a huge amount of friction, so that everything needed winching. Ok, there are winches, but it felt bad to me. And these are well known mass produced mainstream yachts, not some owner’s lash up using bits from the skip. As far as I can see they are both well maintained. The line looked right size and was not stiff and green. I just think when you have so many turning blocks you end up with a festival of friction

Single line reefing is either so good you can't understand why everyone doesn't have it, or so bad you wonder why anyone bothers.
I've seen both extremes and nothing in between.
My boat came with DIY single line reefing which I couldn't make work.
I've changed to two-line reefs, with tack and clew lines operable from the cockpit and it works fine.
Obviously it needs more jammers or cleats.
My main only has two reefs, but each is bigger than you'd want for racing, two of my reefs is a very small sail!

I don't care if the controls are by the mast or in the cockpit, but if one person is doing the work, I think it's good if all the necessary controls are usable from one point in the boat.

 

[Tranona]

Single line reefing is either so good you can't understand why everyone doesn't have it, or so bad you wonder why anyone bothers.
I've seen both extremes and nothing in between.

Just about sums it up. Reducing sail area by dropping discrete area of sail vertically has always seemed a daft idea to me as it needs careful arrangement to make it work smoothly. You are still left with only 2 or 3 pre determined sail areas which need pulling and twisting to make work efficiently. Many pride themselves on devising cunning little tricks to deal with the fundamental deficiencies.

Furling sails have now been developed to a level of efficiency and ease of use that make them the first choice for many (majority?) new cruising boats. Not much help for existing boats, particularly older ones so you are stuck with the complexity of slab reefing.

 

[DangerousPirate]

Just about sums it up. Reducing sail area by dropping discrete area of sail vertically has always seemed a daft idea to me as it needs careful arrangement to make it work smoothly. You are still left with only 2 or 3 pre determined sail areas which need pulling and twisting to make work efficiently. Many pride themselves on devising cunning little tricks to deal with the fundamental deficiencies.

Furling sails have now been developed to a level of efficiency and ease of use that make them the first choice for many (majority?) new cruising boats. Not much help for existing boats, particularly older ones so you are stuck with the complexity of slab reefing.

I don't find slab reefing that complicated personally, but I would absolutely trade my old boat with slab reefing for a modern in mast system!

 

[dunedin]

Drifting now, but I’m curious that so many people like the arrangement where slab reefs are handled from the cockpit. I have sailed in two modern yachts with this arrangement, both around 35 feet, with good quality branded components and I hated it. Seemed like a huge amount of friction, so that everything needed winching. Ok, there are winches, but it felt bad to me. And these are well known mass produced mainstream yachts, not some owner’s lash up using bits from the skip. As far as I can see they are both well maintained. The line looked right size and was not stiff and green. I just think when you have so many turning blocks you end up with a festival of friction

A well designed and setup single line reefing system should work well without too much friction - though sometimes not used for third reef as too much rope needed.
A few years back I sailed on a sistership which on the owner complained the single line reefing had too much friction. On investigation we discovered two lines twisted below the decks, and I re threaded at the sail slightly differently. Suddenly worked perfectly.
Doesn’t need any fancy in boom pulleys, or even pulleys on sails - but thinner ropes with dyneema core definitely helps.

 

[Tranona]

I don't find slab reefing that complicated personally, but I would absolutely trade my old boat with slab reefing for a modern in mast system!

I have had 2 boats with Selden in mast and once you have had it you won't go back willingly. My current boat is in the process of being converted to single line slab led back so I now the cost and faff involved to get it to work well.. Best thing I have done so far is fit a Tides Marine mast track which makes hoisting and lowering a doddle.

 

[DoubleEnder]

My last boat had a reefing line to each clew led forward along the boom. The tacks had ‘spectacles’ to hook on to the horns at the gooseneck. It was all operated from the mast, as was the halyard. It could sometimes be an unpleasant couple of minutes there if it was all a bit fresh and splashy, but it was dead simple and very low friction

 

[DangerousPirate]

I have had 2 boats with Selden in mast and once you have had it you won't go back willingly. My current boat is in the process of being converted to single line slab led back so I now the cost and faff involved to get it to work well.. Best thing I have done so far is fit a Tides Marine mast track which makes hoisting and lowering a doddle.

I tried to get one but I was not satisfied with how it fits. It was wiggling a lot, the tides marine spokesperson assured me it would be okay, a little wiggle is okay, but I could only see me replacing it in 2 years again after dramatically breaking

 

[Tranona]

Surprised at that. Looks like your mast is a standard Proctor section like mine and I used one of their standard jigs to measure. it fitted perfectly plus they sent a trial piece so that I could check before committing to finally fitting the extrusion. all much easier than I expected.

 

[DangerousPirate]

Surprised at that. Looks like your mast is a standard Proctor section like mine and I used one of their standard jigs to measure. it fitted perfectly plus they sent a trial piece so that I could check before committing to finally fitting the extrusion. all much easier than I expected.

I was surprised, too. But it seemed to be between two sizes. The trial piece wiggled quite a bit, I even sent a video of it off.

I really, really wanted the masttrack. A friend of mine has one and they make it so much easier.

 

[yimkin]

I had proctor roller reefing on an Achilles 9M and found it preferable to the slab reeefing and lazyjacks system on my current boat. A boom 'claw' for the vang is essential. To maintain sail shape I put a cringle in the leach 10" above the boom and ran a light line through a turning block, then along the boom to a cam cleat on the boom about a 1 ft from the mast. The main halyard and topping lift were both at the mast. To reef: first tighten the outhaul, then raise the boom and tighten the reefing line till the cringle is on the boom. then maintain tension on the halyard whilst turning the reefing handle. The result is a flat mainsail of any size you wish. If you need to return to the cockpit at any time there is no loose sailcloth or reefing lines to deal with.
Additionally to stow the main round the boom took less than a minute; very useful for a single hander not in the first flush of youth. The sail needs to have a bolt rope to enable the rolls round the boom to lay flat.
To hoist the main unwind the reefing handle 3 or 4 turns then haul on the main halyard alternately. A sail feeder will take care of the bolt rope.
No chance of batters snagging on lazy jacks whilst raising sail. No bights of reefing lines dangling from the boom when sail is lowered. A very tidy sail stow only requiring a simple sail cover.

 

[yimkin]

I had proctor roller reefing on an Achilles 9M and found it preferable to the slab reeefing and lazyjacks system on my current boat. A boom 'claw' for the vang is essential. To maintain sail shape I put a cringle in the leach 10" above the boom and ran a light line through a turning block, then along the boom to a cam cleat on the boom about a 1 ft from the mast. The main halyard and topping lift were both at the mast. To reef: first tighten the outhaul, then raise the boom and tighten the reefing line till the cringle is on the boom. then maintain tension on the halyard whilst turning the reefing handle. The result is a flat mainsail of any size you wish. If you need to return to the cockpit at any time there is no loose sailcloth or reefing lines to deal with.
Additionally to stow the main round the boom took less than a minute; very useful for a single hander not in the first flush of youth. The sail needs to have a bolt rope to enable the rolls round the boom to lay flat.
To hoist the main unwind the reefing handle 3 or 4 turns then haul on the main halyard alternately. A sail feeder will take care of the bolt rope.
No chance of batters snagging on lazy jacks whilst raising sail. No bights of reefing lines dangling from the boom when sail is lowered. A very tidy sail stow only requiring a simple sail cover.View attachment 180759View attachment 180759View attachment 180760View attachment 180759

 

[DangerousPirate]

I had proctor roller reefing on an Achilles 9M and found it preferable to the slab reeefing and lazyjacks system on my current boat. A boom 'claw' for the vang is essential. To maintain sail shape I put a cringle in the leach 10" above the boom and ran a light line through a turning block, then along the boom to a cam cleat on the boom about a 1 ft from the mast. The main halyard and topping lift were both at the mast. To reef: first tighten the outhaul, then raise the boom and tighten the reefing line till the cringle is on the boom. then maintain tension on the halyard whilst turning the reefing handle. The result is a flat mainsail of any size you wish. If you need to return to the cockpit at any time there is no loose sailcloth or reefing lines to deal with.
Additionally to stow the main round the boom took less than a minute; very useful for a single hander not in the first flush of youth. The sail needs to have a bolt rope to enable the rolls round the boom to lay flat.
To hoist the main unwind the reefing handle 3 or 4 turns then haul on the main halyard alternately. A sail feeder will take care of the bolt rope.
No chance of batters snagging on lazy jacks whilst raising sail. No bights of reefing lines dangling from the boom when sail is lowered. A very tidy sail stow only requiring a simple sail cover.View attachment 180759View attachment 180759View attachment 180760View attachment 180759

Lazy bag deals with that for you