Boatyard and Tool Hire UK South East

[WBY]

I'm looking to take on a project boat, but I don't have much experience around boat building and marine engineering. Gotta start somewhere.

Are there any boatyards that would allow me to work on my boat on my own and just pay for their infrastructure (including tools)? And has anyone ever heard of a boatyard that would allow me to work along their shipwrights and engineers while they undertake work on my boat, almost like a mini apprenticeship, obviously I'd still be paying them for carrying out the work. But hoping for a solid learning opportunity.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

There is no way a boatyard would hire tools out; they tend to be personal to individuals and/or too powerful for amateur use.

Hiring a space in a yard is perfectly normal; any and all boatyards will do that and there's no problem doing DIY work while the yard is working as long as the yard work doesn't involve heavy lifting or other activities that require safety procedures. But hiring space in a boatyard is likely to be very expensive; a prerequisite for most projects is a cheap or cost-free working space, as the boat will be occupying it for many months - probably several years.

You're much braver than I - taking on a project without knowledge of boat building and all the skills that are required is something I wouldn't consider.

 

[srm]

Some years ago I came across a list of hourly rates from a yard, I think in the USA. I can not remember the figures so will use the mathematician's unknown - X.

Shipwright = $X / hour
Owner watching = $2X / hour.
Owner helping = $4X / hour

Of course, it may be apocryphal.

 

[jlavery]

Some years ago I came across a list of hourly rates from a yard, I think in the USA. I can not remember the figures so will use the mathematician's unknown - X.

Shipwright = $X / hour
Owner watching = $2X / hour.
Owner helping = $4X / hour

Of course, it may be apocryphal.

Nick Gates (wooden boat builder extraordinaire in Emsworth) has that up in his shed.

 

[Concerto]

I'm looking to take on a project boat, but I don't have much experience around boat building and marine engineering. Gotta start somewhere.

Are there any boatyards that would allow me to work on my boat on my own and just pay for their infrastructure (including tools)? And has anyone ever heard of a boatyard that would allow me to work along their shipwrights and engineers while they undertake work on my boat, almost like a mini apprenticeship, obviously I'd still be paying them for carrying out the work. But hoping for a solid learning opportunity.

Welcome to the Forum and hope you follow the advice you are being given.

Attempting to renovate a boat requires many skills. I have been sailing since 1965. In 1966 I built a Mirror dinghy, then helped fit out a 34ft yacht in the late 1960's, helped build two 30ft yachts from plans in glassfibre in the 1970's and more recently renovated a 32ft 1980 Westerly Fulmar. If you have no experience of boats, then you will make plenty of mistakes from ignorance of how a job should be done. It will cost far more than you expect due to the "marine" tag for the parts required to do a correct job. Also working on boats takes far longer than any DIY you have ever attempted. My fear is that you will start and it becomes another boat that eventually gets abandoned, part finished, in the back corner of a boatyard - like so many more. You will have wasted lots of time and money.

My advice is buy a boat that is currently being used and enjoy boating now and avoid all the problems of what you are asking renovating a boat. This presentation I gave in January 2020 on renovating my Fulmar will give you an idea of what is involved.

https://wiki.westerly-owners.co.uk/images/3/3f/Concerto.pdf

This video shows Concerto almost finished when she was the Westerly Owners Association boat at the Southampton Boat Show in 2021.

 

[steveeasy]

Concerto makes some very good points above. Yes your make lots of mistakes, perhaps. it may cost far more than you could have imagined. You may never ever finish it it. Your be worn out, question why you ever started it and wished youd never ever started the dam thing. However if you finish it, it will be probably be one of the most satisfying achievements.

Some good reading on the subject. make sure you choose wisely. Find somewhere where you have people round you to guide you and offer words of wisdom. make sure you fully understand what you are taking on and make sure you can fund it. When I did my first boat, I made sure the price was right and the right type of boat. I was very careful to consider the potential resale value and got it very wrong loosing a lot of money. still had my best times ever though and remember sitting under a tarp in the pouring rain looking out on the river Dart thinking I was in Heaven. As they say, you only learn by your own mistakes!!.
Incidentally Madz from Saillife found a full workshop with tools where you could use anything for a very small fee somewhere tucked away in Southampton.
Steveeasy

 

[Tranona]

I'm looking to take on a project boat, but I don't have much experience around boat building and marine engineering. Gotta start somewhere.

Are there any boatyards that would allow me to work on my boat on my own and just pay for their infrastructure (including tools)? And has anyone ever heard of a boatyard that would allow me to work along their shipwrights and engineers while they undertake work on my boat, almost like a mini apprenticeship, obviously I'd still be paying them for carrying out the work. But hoping for a solid learning opportunity.

The simple answer is DON'T DO IT!

Project boats re almost all "Failed projects". The killer for most projects is time and money, and the major cost is rent of yard space. So having your own no- or low-cost storage such as a barn eliminates one of the major costs. Most yards allow people to work on their boats, although there is a reluctance among some to accept new customers with project boats because they know that most will never leave and likely to end up a decaying wreck and ultimately the owner becomes unable to meet the storage costs.

You don't say what size or type of boat you are looking at, but to give you an idea for a 30' boat in a yard with access to the water you are looking at a minimum of £3k a year for storage. Most yards have a network of sub contractors who will do work on your boat, but few at the "budget" end have staff or facilities that they would allow you to use.

Most people (even experienced ones) always underestimate the time and money required to carry out work on boats, even replacements and improvements to functioning boats of the type Concerto suggests you buy. There is a similar adage to the one in post#3 in respect of project boats. Do your estimate in time and money double it and maybe it will be somewhere near 50% of the end figures - if you ever get there!

I am currently part way through a project similar to Concertos, but a bit more extensive. Nothing structural and the boat is in use and doing the really time consuming jobs myself and employing subcontractors for those jobs which are either beyond my skill level or I dislike doing. My estimate is that less than half of the time I devote to the project is actually doing things on the boat - the other half is thinking time, deciding what to do, sourcing materials. I live 20 minutes from the boat so minimal travelling time. Every little job is a one off and there are few where you can get hours of continuous work - and these are often the most tedious and unpleasant jobs.

Just to reinforce the cost of materials element. My 31' boat would cost close to £200k to have built now. I paid little above 5% of that for a functioning boat, but everything I have replaced with new is costed in relation to £200k, not £10k. So engine fully installed with new stern gear and propeller, almost as much as the boat cost me. Rewiring, batteries, chargers, instruments (very basic) £5k. Upholstery £1.5k. Rigging £2k. Sails and canvaswork another £5k. I could go on, but you get the idea.

Sorry to sound negative, but if you have little experience of owning and running a boat, starting with a project is not a good idea. There are plenty of older boats in usable condition available for little money. The purchase cost is just the entry fee - the real costs are ongoing mooring, insurance, basic annual maintenance. If you have a modest amount of money to buy a boat look for the one in the best condition with good sails and engine plus all the gear working. Use it and find out what it is all about. It may well be that in the future a project is a good idea, but you will tackle it from a base of knowing what a usable boat should be like.

 

[RogerJolly]

Guess my boats have been semi-project. Yards don't seem to have been too bothered about exact status.

Usually come out for normal winter storage and just do work of various levels as required wherever boat gets put. Always had access to electricity and water.

Maybe extra charge for getting boat moved out of the way if Spring launch delayed. Fear of gradually creeping back to relics row at the back next to the fence is good incentive to crack on.

 

[fisherman]

get a boat you can store on your property.

 

[ashtead]

If you do want a project despite the well articulated risks why not buy something small you can put on a trailer and keep on your land/own shed etc. maybe a small dinghy even you can store in a garage and wheel out to work on . Lots to be learned even renovating a wooden scow or rowing dinghy as a starter and far less risks.

 

[Concerto]

I forgot to mention that any secondhand boat will require some work in improvements or maintenance. So buy a functioning boat and get some experience doing the regular jobs before considering a project boat.

A few years ago there was someone renovating a 26ft Westerly Centaur that he had in his garden. He was doing a superb job. However after 8 years it caused so much friction with his wife and he lost interest in the project. He tried to sell it part completed, but no one would buy it. Eventually he decided to strip back to parts and sold them to get his money back and then cut the hull up and skipped it. He saved his marriage but lost his dream.

As to Tranona's comment about costs in renovating, I can say my boat cost £21,500 to buy. I anticipated it would cost about £12,000 to renovate or improve and take about 2 years. My timescale has been extended to almost 10 years and excluding berthing/lift out/regular maintenance costs, she has set me back about £55,000. That is getting her to a modern standard and almost like new. It sounds shocking but I could have bought a new 32ft boat in 2014 and that would have cost about £150,000 fully fitted. The additional money she did cost me was not a problem as instead of tying up a lot of capital in a boat, I invested some in a flat that I renovated and rented out for 3 years. The rent and capital gain was a nice little earner and more than covered the difference of what I budgeted for and what it has cost.

 

[ridgy]

Well you've had the slew of negative response which is all generally correct and the result of experience.

However...

Why don't you tell us more about what kind of boat you have in mind...big/little, wood/GRP, motor/sail?
What timescales and what budget? Are you retired?
You mention getting an apprenticeship while shipwrights work on your boat. That suggests a very significant budget?

There are better options for scratching this itch. Perhaps build something smaller from scratch. These people supply plans, materials, training courses, and tools:
Build your own Fyne Boat Kit at home

If you do have in mind a restoration of a traditional wooden boat then there are training courses to do this:
Home - Boat Building Academy and Furniture School

There are a couple of other colleges too

 

[ylop]

You don't say what size or type of boat you are looking at, but to give you an idea for a 30' boat in a yard with access to the water you are looking at a minimum of £3k a year for storage.

You don't say where you are - yard prices vary significantly (indoor, outdoor, power, proximity to the SE/solent, etc). You MAY find some "boatclubs" are cheaper and some are friendly with expertise or equipment. As a very crude rule - if its called a "boatclub" it seems to be more about the club effort in maintaining the boats and facilities than if its called a yacht club, although there are exceptions.

If the building rather than owning/sailing part is what appeals ridgy's suggestions are a good start, and there are other options around the country where groups are maintaining some old relic or there seemed to be quite a few rowing skiffs getting built by local groups - that would potentially let you volunteer and gain some knowledge rather than throwing money at a project.

 

[steveeasy]

In the garden. might work for some, but part of the charm is going to the boatyard and working with like minded souls. time away from home. Yes its hard work and relentless. Yes it costs money but if id have brought my boat home it would just not have worked for me.
Bought by chance and towed from the breakers in Portsmouth. she had her tank and winches ripped off and no electrics whatsoever ready to be filmed on the TV series Scrap Kings. with a new engine inside. my third boat. within 6 months she was on the water. Paid £3000 for her. and sold her for 4 times that. expenditure excluding boatyard fees £6,000. A few years cruising and the pinnacle doing the RTIR. Ill never relive such a rewarding time. none of which could have happened with her in my back garden. you need the drive and momentum you really only get from other people.

Steveeasy

 

[srm]

In 2005 I sold a steel boat for around scrap value - it had been gently rusting away inside while being sailed a lot. The new owner took it on as a project, stripped it to the bare hull, re-plated the rusted areas and painted her. A lot of work and cost, including moving the boat by road between different work areas. Family problems overtook the project and last time I looked on Google Earth she was still where he had abandoned her.

Edit: Just had another look. As of June 2022 the boat had gone but the mast was still there, now partly overgrown.

 

[philwebb]

Concerto is right. If you buy a functioning boat in the lower price range you will find that you have enough work to do. The others thing you could do would perhaps be to help someone working on their boat. That would give you some appreciation of what was involved.

 

[bluerm166]

Get a limited project on a lower end popular boat defined by a surveyor if you are that keen.Using the boat and carrying out normal maintenance will gradually extend your horizons and help confirm whether you do want a compound project to tackle.There are numerous yards about that will allow you to carry out your own work for which a fairly limited range of tools are vital ,and if you are the kind of guy that returns tools promptly you can no doubt borrow the few specialist tools involved e.g. stay tensioning guage ,prop puller .A yard where most work is carried out by the owners rather than one where using a contractor is the norm will be a better environment to choose.
If you are happy working with tools,have a reasonable eye and listen to advice ( winnowed down that is) then you have a basis to start learning.
Your budget and what you ultimately want to do with the vessel is likely to define a short list of candidate projects.

 

[srm]

Concerto is right. If you buy a functioning boat in the lower price range you will find that you have enough work to do.

Agree, buy a boat that can be sailed. Use her for one season before doing anything other than essential work. You will then have a better idea of what may need changing/improving. I have found it took three seasons to get a boat that I sailed home after purchase (500+ miles) set up just how I wanted her.

 

[V1701]

Assuming at some point you want to actually do some sailing/boating if you've got the money to pay other people to fix up a project then you can afford a viable boat. So buy a viable boat, enjoy your boating and learn the maintenance and fixing skills as you go along - all boats are projects...

 

[steveeasy]

Assuming at some point you want to actually do some sailing/boating if you've got the money to pay other people to fix up a project then you can afford a viable boat. So buy a viable boat, enjoy your boating and learn the maintenance and fixing skills as you go along - all boats are projects...

Yep on reflection dont do it. as everyone has pointed out, all boats are projects.

Steveeasy