Boat selection for sailing around Britain

[Tranona]

I think I need some clarity on boat size, that seems to be the most varying advice here. Some are saying any seaworthy boat will be fine, whereas others are saying it can only realistically be completed in a 30+ footer within the 3 month time scale.

My plan was to spend £5k on a boat and spread the cost of the refit (<£5k) over 6 months to a year. If I was to buy a larger boat, I'd have to wait until next year (at the earliest) to purchase, which sets everything back. I would also like a simple boat that's built well, as there is less to go wrong and parts readily available/cheap.

I think the main question is, can I get around in a Hurley 22, Corribee etc within 3 months? If not, what would be the bare minimum specification (geometry and structure, not internals) of boat to work from?

Don't get me wrong, even though I'm doing this on budget it doesn't mean I'm after the cheapest boat out there- I'll work up from that baseline specification as necessary.

If it turns out it isn't at all realistic, then I guess I'll have to wait a few years and save for a decent yacht.

The basic issue is that you are setting a target that is difficult to achieve whatever the budget. The boats you are looking at (and can afford) were not designed for doing what you want to do. That does not mean they are not capable of doing the voyage, just that setting a time constraint such as you are means that you have got to be prepared to go out in conditions that are unpleasant and uncomfortable - not just occasionally, but as a matter of course if you want to keep within your time limits.

So, it is as much about your ability to cope with adverse conditions as about the boat, and whether the achievement is the source of the pleasure, rather than the journey itself. Your choice of boat if achieving the 3 month objective is key, is the boat that can maintain the highest speed in the worst conditions that you can tolerate.

On that basis I would be inclined towards the fastest most spartan boat, and probably the nearest that has been suggested so far is something like the GK24 or the Achilles rather than the Folkboat style. Light weight, long waterline and big sail area - it will all be uncomfortable, but you can always throttle back and actively sail to make the best progress in any given set of conditions.

 

[Chrusty 1]

The basic issue is that you are setting a target that is difficult to achieve whatever the budget. The boats you are looking at (and can afford) were not designed for doing what you want to do. That does not mean they are not capable of doing the voyage, just that setting a time constraint such as you are means that you have got to be prepared to go out in conditions that are unpleasant and uncomfortable - not just occasionally, but as a matter of course if you want to keep within your time limits.

So, it is as much about your ability to cope with adverse conditions as about the boat, and whether the achievement is the source of the pleasure, rather than the journey itself. Your choice of boat if achieving the 3 month objective is key, is the boat that can maintain the highest speed in the worst conditions that you can tolerate.

On that basis I would be inclined towards the fastest most spartan boat, and probably the nearest that has been suggested so far is something like the GK24 or the Achilles rather than the Folkboat style. Light weight, long waterline and big sail area - it will all be uncomfortable, but you can always throttle back and actively sail to make the best progress in any given set of conditions.

Tranona, you keep banging that drum, but it just isn't right really, this bloke did it with ease....

http://www.trip-around-britain.blogspot.co.uk/

OK, he didn't go by Cape Wrath, but he did hang around for ages in places, either due to the weather or whatever, he wasn't exactly breaking his neck. The Seal 22 is a fairly quick boat for her waterline length, so that might have helped a bit, the point is he did it without much sweat, and really, if Joe is just wanting to do it for the crack, he doesn't have to go via Cape Wrath either. The Hurley 22, the Anderson 22, a Corribee, a Seal 22, an Achilles 24, are all capable of fulfilling his needs.

The other thing about a bigger boat is that his costings for the trip are going to increase, just in harbour dues alone, if anything breaks, it's going to cost more to fix it, and he will use more fuel. I believe for a run of the mill single hander such as myself for instance, that keeping below the 26 foot length is a sensible proposition, in that the boat will be much more manageable, and lighter on the pocket.

I also think that a boat that will take the ground easily, is a good idea, too, because the last thing any of us want to be worrying about on a trip like Joe is proposing, is where can we safely run to should the need arise, again, a boat that can take the ground means more money in Joe's pocket, not in some marina or harbourmasters pocket.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see which way Joe decides to go, and what boat he eventually ends up with. I for one will looking out for his reports on progress

 

[jonjo]

Tranona, you keep banging that drum, but it just isn't right really, this bloke did it with ease....

http://www.trip-around-britain.blogspot.co.uk/

That is a ridiculous statement Chrusty. The blog highlights just how hard it is.

The OP should read that blog end-to-end and then extract the numbers. The blog author had to sail on about 60 of the 90 days and most daily passages were non trivial for a 22ft yacht. A rudder problem put him out of action for 3 days then there were the weather hold ups.

Those of us who do mostly mid summer English Channel sailing know that many a 2 week west country holiday don't get further than Weymouth due to a combination calm, storm and mechanical problems.

Achieving 60 single handed sailing days in 90 is a tall order.

The OP should also look at the motoring millage numbers. The engine was on 25% of the time call it 500 miles or 125 hours. This might influence his engine decision.

 

[jonjo]

If it turns out it isn't at all realistic, then I guess I'll have to wait a few years and save for a decent yacht.

No don't postpone in pursuit of an improbable dream, just get out there and clock up experience doing something achievable.

Given your age I am surprised by the fixed time limit on this venture. Getting around in 90 days is the main constraint, an extra month would make a big difference.

 

[Tranona]

That is a ridiculous statement Chrusty. The blog highlights just how hard it is.

The OP should read that blog end-to-end and then extract the numbers. The blog author had to sail on about 60 of the 90 days and most daily passages were non trivial for a 22ft yacht. A rudder problem put him out of action for 3 days then there were the weather hold ups.

Those of us who do mostly mid summer English Channel sailing know that many a 2 week west country holiday don't get further than Weymouth due to a combination calm, storm and mechanical problems.

Achieving 60 single handed sailing days in 90 is a tall order.

The OP should also look at the motoring millage numbers. The engine was on 25% of the time call it 500 miles or 125 hours. This might influence his engine decision.

Exactly. Just because one person (and there may of course be others) who have done it does not mean it is easy. It is not necessarily about size of boat, just that larger boats have higher speed potential and can usually maintain speed in less than ideal conditions.

It is also not the distance or the overall conditions that are the challenge - it is the timescale which even if everything goes well demands a high proportion of the time on the move and little margin for the inevitable problems that come from pushing an old boat past its normal limits - never mind the person!

Think what one might use if there were no budget limit and you will see how different that is from what is available for £5k! Maybe part of the challenge is doing it on a minimalist budget, but one needs to be aware of the constraints this imposes on the enterprise.

So the decision is not what boat is suitable for the job, but can it be done (in all respects) using what is available at the price.

 

[crook]

This is just exactly what It is also not the distance or the overall conditions that are the challenge - it is the timescale which even if everything goes well demands a high proportion of the time on the move and little margin for the inevitable problems that come from pushing an old boat past its normal limits - never mind the person!

 

[Chrusty 1]

I think that you must be reading his blog in a different way to me. Sure his trip was not without a problem or two, but he managed it comfortably, and you (Tranona and Jonjo) seem to be talking Joe's project into the bin before he has started.

If I was you Joe, I would stick with your plan and go for it, if you don't make it all the way round because your time runs out, you will still have a lot of good memories, and you can always have a go another time.

 

[Solent Joe]

Firstly, I know this is no holiday. I know that I will be sailing for 60 of the 90 days. I know things will break, and that I will have to out in bad weather. For me, this is part of what I want from this trip, if it's not a challenge I'm not interested.

I've read the blog, and to me there's not much difficultly being highlighted. Definitely not seeming to have any regrets, anyway.

Those of us who do mostly mid summer English Channel sailing know that many a 2 week west country holiday don't get further than Weymouth due to a combination calm, storm and mechanical problems.

jonjo5, this can't really be likened to a holiday to the west country- when you have family with you and are out to have some fun and relax, then hold-ups are a much larger problem, in the sense that they are more likely to stall the trip. I expect problems, and will budget for them also.

No don't postpone in pursuit of an improbable dream, just get out there and clock up experience doing something achievable.

Given your age I am surprised by the fixed time limit on this venture.

Hang on, I have been questioning the feasibility of this trip in the short term, however, you seem to have just condemned it entirely- even though if it was postponed, I would no doubt gain more experience and finances?

With respect to time constraints, I think we have differing experiences of being 20. I'm at University full time, studying a proper course, running my own business plus managing and playing for a local band that's set to go somewhere. Three months with a two week contingency is all I have.

Think what one might use if there were no budget limit and you will see how different that is from what is available for £5k! Maybe part of the challenge is doing it on a minimalist budget, but one needs to be aware of the constraints this imposes on the enterprise.

So the decision is not what boat is suitable for the job, but can it be done (in all respects) using what is available at the price.

I think this is beyond the point. That's like saying because I can't afford an F1 car I'll never be able to drive around Silverstone in a track day car. I am aware of the constraints, but I am asking what would be the minimum benchmark of craft that will get me round in three months, then I can work from there.

I think this has just descended into naysayers missing the point of what I have asked, making ridiculous and unfounded comments. I'm not just after the positives here, but please at least back up your comments such as this is an "improbable dream".

Joe

 

[Chrusty 1]

Firstly, I know this is no holiday. I know that I will be sailing for 60 of the 90 days. I know things will break, and that I will have to out in bad weather. For me, this is part of what I want from this trip, if it's not a challenge I'm not interested.

I've read the blog, and to me there's not much difficultly being highlighted. Definitely not seeming to have any regrets, anyway.



jonjo5, this can't really be likened to a holiday to the west country- when you have family with you and are out to have some fun and relax, then hold-ups are a much larger problem, in the sense that they are more likely to stall the trip. I expect problems, and will budget for them also.



Hang on, I have been questioning the feasibility of this trip in the short term, however, you seem to have just condemned it entirely- even though if it was postponed, I would no doubt gain more experience and finances?

With respect to time constraints, I think we have differing experiences of being 20. I'm at University full time, studying a proper course, running my own business plus managing and playing for a local band that's set to go somewhere. Three months with a two week contingency is all I have.



I think this is beyond the point. That's like saying because I can't afford an F1 car I'll never be able to drive around Silverstone in a track day car. I am aware of the constraints, but I am asking what would be the minimum benchmark of craft that will get me round in three months, then I can work from there.

I think this has just descended into naysayers missing the point of what I have asked, making ridiculous and unfounded comments. I'm not just after the positives here, but please at least back up your comments such as this is an "improbable dream".

Joe

Good post Joe, just go for it, Choose your boat with care, stick to your guns, then give it some! I think it's fair to say that all the sub 25 footers that have been mentioned are well up to the task, and have done some remarkable voyages.

 

[Solent Joe]

Good post Joe, just go for it, Choose your boat with care, stick to your guns, then give it some! I think it's fair to say that all the sub 25 footers that have been mentioned are well up to the task, and have done some remarkable voyages.

Thanks for your input, Chrusty 1

 

[Romeo]

I have done a bit of coasting in a small boat. Great fun, you can get into more places (although you say you are not so bothered about exploring the shallows). You do need to watch the weather, and not put pressure on yourself to leave port if the conditions are not favourable. That is to be safe and flexible, do not force yourself to complete the circumnavigation in a oner, if conditions do not make it sensible to do so.

On the boat choice front, if I was younger and fitter, I would consider a camping catamaran and a dry suit. You really can make more progress at times when conditions are favourable. Not everyones taste I am sure.

 

[Georgio]

This has become a very long thread and to be honest I have not read it all.

For my tuppence I would suggest a GK24. Having owned one for some years (including a leisurely trip from Glasgow to Solent) before getting something bigger I would highly recommend it. Strong, good in light and heavy airs and with performance that can embarrass many larger boats. They are also cheap as chips for what they are and you can sell on after (if you wish) for the same money.

There are a couple of them on ebay at the moment and they both look pretty good.

Mine had an 4hp outboard that hung off the back and pushed us along at 4.5-5kts in a flat sea but an inboard is preferable. However if there is any wind at all you will be sailing (rather than wallowing in the swell in a more traditional pocket cruiser).

 

[Solent Joe]

This has become a very long thread and to be honest I have not read it all.

For my tuppence I would suggest a GK24. Having owned one for some years (including a leisurely trip from Glasgow to Solent) before getting something bigger I would highly recommend it. Strong, good in light and heavy airs and with performance that can embarrass many larger boats. They are also cheap as chips for what they are and you can sell on after (if you wish) for the same money.

There are a couple of them on ebay at the moment and they both look pretty good.

Mine had an 4hp outboard that hung off the back and pushed us along at 4.5-5kts in a flat sea but an inboard is preferable. However if there is any wind at all you will be sailing (rather than wallowing in the swell in a more traditional pocket cruiser).

I've just been looking at those earlier today on eBay and apolloduck. I initially disregarded them due to the 9ft beam, however they look to be fast boats(?)

 

[Georgio]

I've just been looking at those earlier today on eBay and apolloduck. I initially disregarded them due to the 9ft beam, however they look to be fast boats(?)

They are not lightweight flyers in the modern sense (Westerly didn't make light-weight boats!) but are certainly quick for their size and vintage. At the same time they are strongly built with two keel and two rig options.

Downsides are sitting headroom only and some have had a hard life but there are still plenty of good ones around. The ebay one with a new inboard for 4999 it an extremely good deal IMO.

I would have one again without hesitation.

 

[Scarboroughsloop]

Or just do it in comfort and at reasonable speed (certainly faster than a Folkboat).

http://www.mjlewisboatsales.com/?strBoatId=30744

Ok, I'm biased as I'm the current owner

 

[Chrusty 1]

I've just been looking at those earlier today on eBay and apolloduck. I initially disregarded them due to the 9ft beam, however they look to be fast boats(?)

I think they are worth considering too, as long as you can find one that hasn't been raced to death, my only reservation is they are fin keelers, which means you are tied to marinas or deep water harbours and anchorages. Sails are likely to be tired or fooked, and all the rigging would need close inspection, both could be very costly to replace. It aint a bad option though if you could find a good one, nice looking boat too I think.

 

[Chrusty 1]

Or just do it in comfort and at reasonable speed (certainly faster than a Folkboat).

http://www.mjlewisboatsales.com/?strBoatId=30744

Ok, I'm biased as I'm the current owner

Offer him 5k for it Joe

 

[Scarboroughsloop]

Offer him 5k for it Joe

He should yes.......

But if he doesn't I think the GK24 is a damned good bet for his plans and I think good looking in their own way as well.

 

[Chrusty 1]

He should yes.......

But if he doesn't I think the GK24 is a damned good bet for his plans and I think good looking in their own way as well.

He came back to quick Joe, offer him 4k instead! I agree with you though, the GK24 is a nice wee boat, not standing headroom, but there aint many that are sub 25 foot, but they have loads of space just the same.

 

[Scarboroughsloop]

Unless he can find a Westerly Tiger for the price........