Boat selection for sailing around Britain

[snooks]

re moderation

It's not a great system, but it's the naure of this beast I'm afraid. Moderation usually occurs Mon-Fri 9-5 as that's when the people who get paid to moderate do the moderation. There will be other times out of hours when posts get moderated, by myself for instance, but this is on a ad hoc basis as we give up our time on here to moderate posts. I do work for IPC, but it's not my job to patrol the forum, neither is it in my job description and I certainly don't get paid for doing it

As to why the first few posts are moderated, you would not believe the amount of spam that fly in the direction of these fora, so unless everyone would like to wade through tonnes of spam advertising viagra (or what ever it's latest name is today) to find a post reading, that's the way it has to be unfortunately.

After the first few posts if it's clear that a user isn't someone else, advertising, or spamming etc then the moderation is removed and they are allowed to post freely, as you are now.

 

[aslabend]

Nic 26 is what you want (but then I would say that).

Seriously though to do it in three months you will have to keep up a pace (it took us three months in a 43ft Gibsea to go round via cape wrath but we day sailed most of it and did dawdle in Cornwall and Scotland). I did Portsmouth to Anglesey and back single-handed in six weeks last summer in Siri but that included two 5 day stopovers in Falmouth and Hollyhead due to bad weather. To keep up a pace like that you will have to motor and I just can't see an outboard cutting it. I tried to do longer passages with the wind behind and having a boat that is gentle on the tiller meant the autopilot could make it gentle on the skipper without power worries. A long, heavy keel helps with that. It also helps on days into the wind. I could lash the tiller, pop below and brew up/ dot the chart without the boat spinning around out of control.

Whilst waxing lyrical about heavy long keelers, I know they are not the only option. There were times when I wanted a light lift keeler that pointed higher or a boat that surfed or a boat that went backwards under motor in the direction I intended or one that..... well you get the picture. None are perfect, but there are reasons why so many people have sailed long distances in Folkboat derivatives. Late 60's Early 70's Nic 26, contessa 26, Invicta 26, Cutlass 27 - all were heavily built, the rigs were sturdy and they are a lot of boat for the money now. Pick carefully and barter hard and you are sure to find a good one for sensible money. Whatever you pick you will make the right choice. Just make sure you do it. After last summer I'm trying to gather funds do a circumnavigation next summer . If only I was born rich like our politicians. I wouldn't be running the country, just continually sailing round it wondering why everyone else wasn't

 

[snooks]

Snooks- I agree that 3 months isn't a great deal of time, but from what I've researched it does seem do-able. Also, I'm a keen photographer/videographer, so hope to record the trip in detail.

It's do able, but what you don't want it to be is a war of attrition. Setting yourself just 3 months to do it will be hard work, and no matter how young and fit you are the weather will always be in charge.

Lats year we got from Largs to Portsmouth in 7 days, 28 hours motoring from Largs to Howth, 40 hours motoring from Howth to Falmouth, 6 hours motoring from Falmouth to Dartmouth, 12 hours from Dartmouth to Portsmouth...86 hours motoring in 7 days and we stopped in 4 places with 3 people on board.

What are you looking to achieve?

If it's to sail around Britain that's one thing, if it's to sail around Britain, enjoy yourself and see lots of places and speak to lots of people that's something completely different.

 

[tom_sail]

I have also given myself 3 months although I'm going through the cally. I start at Warsash College on the 2nd September and planning to leave North Wales end of May, will 3 months be pushing it?

 

[snooks]

will 3 months be pushing it?

The bit we found that takes the most time is the bit you're missing out, you can do in 4 days what it took us 20 days* of sailing/motoring to get to the same point (Mull - Lossiemouth)

*These were the days we were actually sailing/motoring not the total time it took us which was from 16 June - 8th August inc 2 weeks "off" in Orkney, we got stuck in Gairloch for over a week thanks to 3 gales and 1 storm, then another 8 days total with engine problems

 

[tom_sail]

The bit we found that takes the most time is the bit you're missing out, you can do in 4 days what it took us 20 days* of sailing/motoring to get to the same point (Mull - Lossiemouth)

*These were the days we were actually sailing/motoring not the total time it took us which was from 16 June - 8th August inc 2 weeks "off" in Orkney, we got stuck in Gairloch for over a week thanks to 3 gales and 1 storm, then another 8 days total with engine problems

Thanks for the reassurance I would love to do the top bit but I understand it's nye on impossible with my short time frame.

 

[snooks]

Thanks for the reassurance I would love to do the top bit but I understand it's nye on impossible with my short time frame.

Some people are lucky with the weather in that part of the world, we weren't. We know how tough it can be mentally if not physically to want to go somewhere and having to wait for the weather.

Our get-out plan was to leave the boat in Scotland for the winter (which we did) or get her trucked back if we had to....but we were cruising Scotland and wanted to see as much as we could, we never set off to go around Britain, but we wanted to get to Orkney.

 

[tom_sail]

Our get-out plan was to leave the boat in Scotland for the winter (which we did) or get her trucked back if we had to....but we were cruising Scotland and wanted to see as much as we could, we never set off to go around Britain, but we wanted to get to Orkney.

That's my plan if I run out of time get her trucked back, costly I know

 

[snooks]

That's my plan if I run out of time get her trucked back, costly I know

That was why we decided to leave her up there....we have to pay to keep our boat somewhere, so why not Scotland?

It didn't work out as well as it could have, trying to find the time was always the biggest problem, but it didn't cost us much more in the end.

 

[Solent Joe]

aslaband- thanks, that was quite informative. By Folkboat, are you also including the wooden derivatives or just GRP?

snooks- I hope to achieve a trip around Britain within the time constraint of about 3 1/2 months maximum. I would love to visit everywhere along the coast, meet people etc, however if getting round within this time frame means minimal stops, then that's what I'll have to do to achieve my goal in getting around.
When I mentioned filming/photographing, I'm not going out to record Britain's entire coast on film, merely recording my trip in a well presented manner.

Finally, would an outboard be up for the job? or should I really be looking at inboards?

Joe

 

[Babylon]

By Folkboat, are you also including the wooden derivatives or just GRP?

Maintenance issues aside, it doesn't make any difference. The observation was that there are a good number of folkboat-derived designs around that were not only robustly-built but are now available within range of your fairly low budget.

would an outboard be up for the job? or should I really be looking at inboards?

It depends on how you're conceiving of your trip. If you're rushing to meet deadlines and the wind is wrong for your destination, then a reasonable inboard will make up time. If you're interested in sailing but need an auxilliary for getting into and out of harbours, then an outboard will suffice.

 

[graham]

Outboard/Inboard

Pros and cons for both.small Diesel inboards tend to be reliable and frugal on fuel .Modern outboards are also generally reliable and have the advantage that if they go wrong you can take iot to someone to fix or swap it for another one in 10 minutes.

Depends on the boat you get , some boats are suitable for outboards some arent.An outboard mounted in a well will be more efficient than one on a transom bracket and the prop wont come out of the water when pitching.Generally I dont think the folkboat types are ideally suited to an outboard but I know people do have them.

 

[dylanwinter]

beautifully put

Pros and cons for both.small Diesel inboards tend to be reliable and frugal on fuel .Modern outboards are also generally reliable and have the advantage that if they go wrong you can take iot to someone to fix or swap it for another one in 10 minutes.

Depends on the boat you get , some boats are suitable for outboards some arent.An outboard mounted in a well will be more efficient than one on a transom bracket and the prop wont come out of the water when pitching.Generally I dont think the folkboat types are ideally suited to an outboard but I know people do have them.

in a nutshell.

I agree with everything this man says

Dylan

 

[Solent Joe]

Thanks for that Graham, some points I hadn't considered there.

Dylan, in response to your earlier questions- I'm 20, of very good fitness, have been sailing 7 years and am going round at a fair pace. What would your suggestion be based on this info?

Joe

 

[Fascadale]

I think you should be able to it in three months.

I did Edinburgh to Edinburgh via the Solent in six weeks last summer and a couple of years ago sailed from Tobermory to Edinburgh via Scapa in twelve days .

You do have to press on though: put the motor on if the speed drops much below 4kts, put in a few 24hr+ passages, Milford Haven to Falmouth, Lowestoft to Grimsby, Peterhead to Wick is another long one.

Not much time for sight seeing: save your down time for when the weather is bad or something breaks on the boat. I was stuck in Brighton for five days with a duff gearbox and Grimsby for another five days with a gale.

I wouldn't like to try it with only an outboard. Its a very long way, the weather is often not great, there are places with fierce tides and you are not giving yourself much leeway, time wise.

I did it in an Invicta 26, smallish, no standing headroom, a bit damp but generally a satisfactory sailing boat. Lots of different boats would be suitable. Some people do it in open dinghy's, some in sea kayaks. As long as its basically seaworthy it should do the job. I would look for something small with a decent motor.

 

[PeterR]

I'm looking to sail single-handed around Britain via Cape Wrath in the next couple of years (still very much in the planning stage! ) however, I've planned on purchasing a boat in the coming months- most probably being the one that will take me around Britain, so I need to take appropriate features into account.

What should I look for in a boat to complete a single-handed circumnavigation? obviously overall build quality etc, but anything specific? also any boats in particular that I should keep away from/tend towards?

My budget for the boat is around £5K excluding refit.

While I'm here, other general tips from those of you who have completed this circumnavigation would be great!

Just about any well found boat will do but I would start by looking at the Contessa 26, Sadler 25 and Albin Vega. These are all advertised for a little more than your budget but who knows what people might accept in the present financial market. Its often better for someone to accept an offer £2 to £3 K less than the asking price to avoid an extra years insurance//berthing/hardstanding and allow them to get on with purchasing their new dream.

Failing those the Corribee or Hurley 22 are good well proven options.

I would try and get an inboard rather than an outboard. Transom mounted outboards are a complete no-no for this sort of trip. They simply will not provide any drive in any sort of seaway. Mounted in a well they are much better but you still have the problem that they will not provide any significant charge to your battery and you will have to come up with an alternate charging system. Expect to do a lot more motoring than you might previously have envisaged. Everyone finds this to be the case.

If you are single handing you must have a reliable system for self-steering. There is no such thing as a waterproof stand alone tiller pilot. Despite what the manufacturers claim the standard offerings all leak when subject to bad weather. You can improve matters by making a cover out of a tube of polythene but they are essentially fair weather/motoring aids. I would suggest you learn how to set up sheet to tiller steering – at least as a back up.

You could theoretically do the trip in 3 months but you might easily find yourself pushed for time. We only took 9 weeks (including a week off to fly back home) but we did some very long legs and were extremely lucky with the weather, losing only one day to gales.

You may have seen my videos of the trip. If not see “Right hand Down a Bit” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey6JKVBmpYQ&feature=g-upl

 

[dylanwinter]

Since you ask....

Thanks for that Graham, some points I hadn't considered there.

Dylan, in response to your earlier questions- I'm 20, of very good fitness, have been sailing 7 years and am going round at a fair pace. What would your suggestion be based on this info?

Joe

20 is good - lots of energy

small cabin

three months is really short

I have yet to sail around the UK but I have owned two trailer sailers so I have sailed in a lot of places - spent my fare share of time sitting glumly in the cockpit under a tarp over the boom listening to weather forecasts.

Several times with the trailer sailer I sailed one way, got a bus to pick up the car and drove back the other way. Tobermory has got me twice now.

But you might consider stepping back a bit

you need to decide why you are doing the journey

If you are doing the journey for bragging rights....

well there is nothing wrong with that at your age.
Having something to brag about is good. proving to yourself you are tough is also great. When I was 18 I went to work on cattle ranch in canada

frightened myself lots of times

but if you want to sail just for the adventure

- well there are lots of adventures to be had anywhere around our coasts - The west coast of scotland is wonderfully crinkly and gets as wild as you could ever want. If you want lonliness you can find it - some of those sea locks are so dark and forbidding

wonderful and frightening - laying to an anchor scraping through pebbles or weeds with winds howling down the mountain sides at you.

passing through corryvrecken

sail to Ireland - some great places - some amazing people - lovely, lovely drinking sessions, great music. beautiful women.

My advice is to not worry too much about the target of sailing around this island - if you become a sailor aim to do it before you die - you have loads of time

buy a boat - maybe a rubbbish boat with a great outboard- and sail the socks off it for three months

that way you can buy a worse boat and have more money

buy that bilge keeled corribbe - sail a beautiful boat that sails beautifully

buy an old westerly 22 - sail a bit of British history


But if you really are goal focussed then go for the circumnavigation by all means

but

It seems to me that you problem is more with an engine than a boat - you have to have a reliable engine

there can be few things more huimilating than being saved by the RNLI

and finding a good boat under £5,000 with a good inboard is going to be next to impossible

that is what I think

although others will tell you different.

you could get around the UK in a well found 16 foot fishing boat with a 5 hp on the back

your brains would be mush at the end of every day but you would achieve you goal

I think you have to go for a sailing boat with an outboard in a well or close in to the transom - no massifve overhang

that way for £1200 you can have rock solid engine reliability and battery charging of sorts.


I think that to enjoy our coastline you need a boat that could take the ground as that will keep your costs down and make all sorts of cheap and intersting harbours available to you

it will also mean that you probably don't need a dinghy

I have a £30 beach inflatable that I have used twice

a boat that can take the ground means that you could take it to any cheap yard - which is to be found hidden away up almost every creek in the UK

- ask them to stick in a corner, drop the mast and put a tarp over it and it can sit there for ththree years before you come back

again the outboard scores here because that can be put safely in your dad's garage

how much time do you have to prep the boat?

How much money do you have?

I would set another target - swim in Fingals cave

sail to the Scillies, the channel islands, the orkneys

our coast has more than enough adventure for a life-time of sailing

no need top eat it all at once

Dylan

 

[aslabend]

aslaband- thanks, that was quite informative. By Folkboat, are you also including the wooden derivatives or just GRP?

.....

Finally, would an outboard be up for the job? or should I really be looking at inboards?

Joe

Joe, don't have anything against wooden folk boats but I would guess grp is less maintenance.

As for outboard v's inboard. On a small boat (of which I include mine) neither motor type is really going to power into any sort of weather faster than sailing. The auxiliary really come into their own in and out of port and when the wind dies and you can chug along at 4 1/2 knots till it fills in again. Both sorts can do this. Inboard diesels are fitted lower in the boat and nearer the centre of gravity which s good. Diesels tend to be more fuel efficient. Inboards have the prop behind the rudder, the props tend to be higher so can lift out the water but they are lighter and if they do break you can drive it to someone to fix it. Outboards are cheaper.... probably. Just don't take them to a main dealer for a service (they took my first born last time and are after my soul for the next service).

 

[Solent Joe]

Thanks for that extensive answer Dylan.

But you might consider stepping back a bit

you need to decide why you are doing the journey

My drive to do this is mainly as an experience, a landmark in my life. I've realised that although I tend to spend money wisely, anything I do spend on luxury goods. Nice as they are, they don't contribute to me as a person- my character, and knowledge from life experiences.

Other reasons do include adventure, and proving to myself I can achieve what I set my mind to- I am a very target-driven person and being able to say to myself "I sailed around Britain" rather than "I sailed around the South Coast for three months" is a lot more quantifiable, and not so much bragging rights as satisfying myself.. I'd have to do something a bit different (and probably a lot easier!) to satisfy my peers.

I do wish to fully explore our coastline in the future, much as you are doing. I think by sailing round I can see the overall picture, then focus my energy into the areas I wish to go back to, without the pressuring myself to get around the UK, as that goal will have been completed.

It seems to me that you problem is more with an engine than a boat - you have to have a reliable engine

I'm currently studying for a Master's degree in Mechanical Engineering, so I have the willingness and knowledge to get involved with the engine- that should hopefully count for something out there! I understand this by no means solves the problem, an unreliable engine can't really be helped, but hopefully I should be able to get a half decent engine through the trip.

how much time do you have to prep the boat?

How much money do you have?

I'm looking to purchase the boat between September and early next year- I want to hold out on getting a good boat at the right price. This will give me at least a year, maybe two, to get used to the yacht. I will slowly refit the yacht over this time, obviously leaving the most critical components to be fitted as close to the trip as possible, as not to wear them out at all.

I have £5k to spend on the boat, £5k spread over 1 or 2 yrs for the long "refit" and £3k set aside for the trip itself.

Thanks again for your time in giving a well-thought reply

Joe

 

[tonybannister]

Achilles 24 would suit (see achillesyachts website). Dylans advice was good and like him I like the old westerly 22 but you would need more than 3 months to get round Britain in one of those. You will need a boat that moves in light winds and can look after you in heavy weather to meet your target. There are several Achilles for sale at £3k or under but some are for sale up to £5 or even over that have had a lot of work done on them and lots of money spent on them. Look for one of those. Read big bloke - small boat - voyage of a madman by William Garnier.