Boat in build pics (2013 Fairline Squadron 78)

[intouch1]

jfm, you might want to check These out for yacht lettering....
i am in contact myself and their Options are limitless.

am not affiliated, just might go for their products

http://www.massive-light-systems.com/

 

[BartW]

I'm alway's wondering if these workers don't suffer from itch ?
they have uncovered skin a lot of times,
don't wear gloves very often,
if only I drill a 3mm hole in GRP I start feeling it

 

[lanerboy]

I'm alway's wondering if these workers don't suffer from itch ?
they have uncovered skin a lot of times,
don't wear gloves very often,
if only I drill a 3mm hole in GRP I start feeling it

I agree all i did was put my arm inside the radar arch resting on the grp only for a few seconds and it drove me mad for about an hour

 

[rafiki_]

Serious quantities of spaghetti there John. I guess with your level of customising, the looms are not so easy to build off the hull? What sort of connectors do you specify? Do you get a decent wiring diagram when complete? Would be a nightmare to trace without.

 

[jfm]

jfm, you might want to check These out for yacht lettering....
i am in contact myself and their Options are limitless.

am not affiliated, just might go for their products

http://www.massive-light-systems.com/

Thanks. I sort of get the impression they are new to this game (hardly any installed names in their gallery) and so I looked for but didn't get some indication they had managed this engineering issues with these products. They may well have done, the website didn't convey that.
My preference is to stick with yachtlite, whose products I know work. But it may be that massive are just as good

 

[jfm]

Serious quantities of spaghetti there John. I guess with your level of customising, the looms are not so easy to build off the hull? What sort of connectors do you specify? Do you get a decent wiring diagram when complete? Would be a nightmare to trace without.

Most of the looms are created in hull, due to customisation. All wires are sheathed in plastic flexi conduit, or stiff box conduit in certain cases. There are no wires just sitting there in their own insulation. All small connections are Deutsch with the three lip seals - I'm sure you know them well Rafiki in your line of business. There are 12v, 24v DC circuits, 48v for radar, 230v single phase and 3 phase (via VFDs) for large motors (airco and hydraulic pump). And yes, I get a series of wiring diagrams - the base boat, and the options as pdfs, plus the mobile number of the main electrical installer/supervisor on the line (Simon) and the electrical engineer in the design office who does all the calcs and drawings (another Simon) both of whom have built 92 Sq78s so know the things quite well

 

[erik_plus8]

Jfm - thank you for sharing, this is very interesting reading/viewing. A question regarding the picture with the hull from the side: Is the stern thruster housing moulded into the hull (which seems unlikely), or was it mounted when the hull came out of the mould?

 

[rafiki_]

Most of the looms are created in hull, due to customisation. All wires are sheathed in plastic flexi conduit, or stiff box conduit in certain cases. There are no wires just sitting there in their own insulation. All small connections are Deutsch with the three lip seals - I'm sure you know them well Rafiki in your line of business. There are 12v, 24v DC circuits, 48v for radar, 230v single phase and 3 phase (via VFDs) for large motors (airco and hydraulic pump). And yes, I get a series of wiring diagrams - the base boat, and the options as pdfs, plus the mobile number of the main electrical installer/supervisor on the line (Simon) and the electrical engineer in the design office who does all the calcs and drawings (another Simon) both of whom have built 92 Sq78s so know the things quite well

Thanks John, yes connector reliability has been a real benefit to auto reliability, and I guess the technology reads across to boats quite well. I am just trying to imagine continuity testing an 80+ foot loom

 

[MapisM]

230v single phase and 3 phase (via VFDs) for large motors (airco and hydraulic pump).

I was aware that the stabs pump was 3 phase, but not the A/C. Did you have the same setup on M1?
Makes one wonder if it isn't worth using 3 phase gensets and get rid of the VFDs altogether. Reliable as they are nowadays, I'd still rather not have them, if given the choice...

 

[BartW]

I was aware that the stabs pump was 3 phase, but not the A/C. Did you have the same setup on M1?
Makes one wonder if it isn't worth using 3 phase gensets and get rid of the VFDs altogether. Reliable as they are nowadays, I'd still rather not have them, if given the choice...

yes, had the same question,
but I believe that its more convenient to be able to work from single phase as many marina's only have single phase

 

[MapisM]

I am just trying to imagine continuity testing an 80+ foot loom

LOL, if you're aware of what sort of equipment they use in car building to test all the electronic components installed in cars, don't worry, in boatbuilding they simply don't do anything like that!
They just install the stuff, and then mend it as appropriate as soon as the owner finds the faults...

 

[MapisM]

yes, had the same question, but I believe that its more convenient to be able to work from single phase as many marina's only have single phase

Good point, B.
Though I'd rather say that many, if not most, of the marinas good for boats in the 80' bracket actually do have 3 phase.
And those who don't, normally allow boats to run gensets (though I agree that it's a real PITA).

 

[BartW]

They just install the stuff, and then mend it as appropriate as soon as the owner find the faults...

is that what they call reverse engineering

 

[BartW]

Good point, B.
Though I'd rather say that many, if not most, of the marinas good for boats in the 80' bracket actually do have 3 phase.
And those who don't, normally allow boats to run gensets (though I agree that it's a real PITA).

Yes you're right, I think that most boats in the 80ft bracket run their genny's anyhow when somebody is aboard, and just don't bother.
I'm glad I'm just below 80 ft

 

[rafiki_]

LOL, if you're aware of what sort of equipment they use in car building to test all the electronic components installed in cars, don't worry, in boatbuilding they simply don't do anything like that!
They just install the stuff, and then mend it as appropriate as soon as the owner finds the faults...

Yes, my background is the auto sector, and we are pretty good at basic reliability these days, as the electrics/electronics are all tested during assembly. Hence my question.

 

[MapisM]

And a good one at that.
Actually, I never dealt first hand with the automotive industry, but a good friend of mine did (for decades), and he told me in some details how these things are organised.
Hence my reply...

 

[rafiki_]

And a good one at that.
Actually, I never dealt first hand with the automotive industry, but a good friend of mine did (for decades), and he told me in some details how these things are organised.
Hence my reply...

I go back as far as the Prince of Darkness days of Lucas And have witnessed huge improvements subsequently.

 

[jfm]

Jfm - thank you for sharing, this is very interesting reading/viewing. A question regarding the picture with the hull from the side: Is the stern thruster housing moulded into the hull (which seems unlikely), or was it mounted when the hull came out of the mould?

It is, as you guessed, bolted on afterwards. Bowthruster tunnel is of course made "in mould"

In theory you could make tubes and have a moulded in sternthruster but it wouldn't be a greater idea becuase of lost buoyancy (where you need it) and intrusion into the tiller area where space is at a strong premium. So afaik all manufacturers just bolt the st/thruster to the outside of the transom

 

[jfm]

I'm glad I'm just below 80 ft

Me too. 79'11"

Yup MapisM, both gensets are single phase. The a/c compressors and stabs are 3ph using VFD, and the rest of the boat is 230v single ph. M1 was exactly the same.

I haven't thought about it hard but I'd guess the thinking is that (a) marinas for this size boat are perhaps 50-50 single vs 3ph supply, approx, and (b) all the other significant mains elec loads are domestic appliances (cooking, laundry, refrigeration) and that tends to be single phase hardware; commercial hardware would be €€€€more. Furthermore, on a boat this small it would be hard to balance the loads on the 3 phases, becuase you have a small number of appliances and switching just one item on/off significantly affects the relative loads (balance) across the phases. A bigger boat would have a bigger portfolio of appliances

Much guesswork there from me though

I too hate running gensets in port - and except for a few hours in afternoon for cooking/watermaker/airco I don't want to use them much in the day. On M1 my engine hours were 260 when i sold her and aggregate genset hours across both gensets were about 550. Plenty of 24m boats run the gensets all day though, as you know

 

[jfm]

I am just trying to imagine continuity testing an 80+ foot loom

As MapisM says, that is customer's job . I gotta say though, the wiring stnadards these days at Fairline and many others builders is first rate. All modern gear, cables run neatly and protected in sheathing, all labelled, connections neatly done, ducts aall over the boat with pull-through cords (mice?) for adding extra circuits, laminated card with circuit nbames and numbers, etc. I had zero elec faults on Match 1

Also it is easy these days to buy a kit of field installable Deutsch connectors (eg eBay). I have a set, €50 or so iirc, and use them for any equipment added to the boat and when replacing short-life equipment such as float switches etc