jfm
Well-Known Member
They do a 78. That would be properly grand
Boat in build pics (2013 Fairline Squadron 78)
- Thread starter jfm
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Deleted User YDKXO
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Year about 5000 grand
petem
Well-Known Member
Year about 5000 grand
Cheapskate!
jfm
Well-Known Member
Well then maybe it really does make sense to forget any prejudices about hull shapesYear about 5000 grand
D) and as a retirement toy buy yerself a 78ish foot mainstream flybr from FretiFairPrinSunseekCanadosLeonard, with big fuel tanks and stabs. 2000nm range when pootling @ 9knots or whatever. 2million saving over the Fleming price would offset imho any other relative disadvantages, and besides there would also be some advantages [/walking the talk]
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Well, with a 3M budget, one could as well forget not just prejudices, but also toys overall, and go for a real ship instead.Well then maybe it really does make sense to forget any prejudices about hull shapes
Just as an example...
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatMergedDetails.jsp?boat_id=2523873
jfm
Well-Known Member
Ooh, interesting machine and virtually new. How does the back-up drive system work? I mean what is the prime mover, if the main engine has died? Surely not a 35hp genset engine with diddy PTO?.Well, with a 3M budget, one could as well forget not just prejudices, but also toys overall, and go for a real ship instead.
Just as an example...
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatMergedDetails.jsp?boat_id=2523873
It's such a shame the whole boat is spoilt by an utterly awful charmless dull interior, with terrible colours and detailing. I mean both the pilothouse and the rest of the interior. It has all the charm of a manky cargo ship. I think the cherry cabinet work would be ok, but all the corian surfaces, that oven, all the sofas and other furniture, the headlinings and wall coverings need doing again. A €250k refit would soon fix that, which isn't a big problem in the overall scheme of things.
rafiki_
Well-Known Member
Yep, not much wow factor for the money.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Good question, J. What does an auxiliary hydraulic drive system that is located behind the main engine actually means, I really don't know - not to mention the chain drive system.
She must have a huge shaft/prop, and I can hardly imagine that an hydraulic pump (even assuming that it's sized to use the whole power of the genset engine, which is probably more in the 45-50hp league rather than 35, for a 27.kW genny), connected with a chain to that shaft (?), could move all the 120 tons of the vessel at much more than maneuvering speed.
Then again, maybe that's what they mean, 'dunno...
The ad says she's located in Imperia, which is just a hundred km or so driving E along the coast from Antibes. Fancy meeting there and have a look?
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Well, the capability to go literally anywhere on the planet with a cinema room at your disposal (among other things) does have a sort of wow factor, in my books.
Then again, surely she ain't a "pole dancer oriented" boat, if that's the type of wow factor you're after - not that I dislike it, mind...
rafiki_
Well-Known Member
Good question, J. What does an auxiliary hydraulic drive system that is located behind the main engine actually means, I really don't know - not to mention the chain drive system.
She must have a huge shaft/prop, and I can hardly imagine that an hydraulic pump (even assuming that it's sized to use the whole power of the genset engine, which is probably more in the 45-50hp league rather than 35, for a 27.kW genny), connected with a chain to that shaft (?), could move all the 120 tons of the vessel at much more than maneuvering speed.
Then again, maybe that's what they mean, 'dunno...
The ad says she's located in Imperia, which is just a hundred km or so driving E along the coast from Antibes. Fancy meeting there and have a look?
Well, the capability to go literally anywhere on the planet with a cinema room at your disposal (among other things) does have a sort of wow factor, in my books.
Then again, surely she ain't a "pole dancer oriented" boat, if that's the type of wow factor you're after - not that I dislike it, mind...
I normally take a plane to travel any distance, and watch the movies on route. I can't think of any reason that I would want a cinema on board a boat. However, we are all different, so each to their own
jfm
Well-Known Member
That's the Onan genset that I know rather well, having owned 4 of them so far in the 23kva version. Same engine, not even different tune up, in the 23 and 27kva versions. Kubota 4 pot 3.3litres non turbo, IIRC 36hp @1500rpm. If it is US, 1800rpm, maybe it's 40hp. But after hydraulic and chain drive losses as you say, that wouldn't even make a good bowthruster for this baby let alone propulsion. So I am curious, because this doesn't feel like a ship that would contain such an engineering screw upGood question, J. What does an auxiliary hydraulic drive system that is located behind the main engine actually means, I really don't know - not to mention the chain drive system.
She must have a huge shaft/prop, and I can hardly imagine that an hydraulic pump (even assuming that it's sized to use the whole power of the genset engine, which is probably more in the 45-50hp league rather than 35, for a 27.kW genny), connected with a chain to that shaft (?), could move all the 120 tons of the vessel at much more than maneuvering speed.
Then again, maybe that's what they mean, 'dunno...
The ad says she's located in Imperia, which is just a hundred km or so driving E along the coast from Antibes. Fancy meeting there and have a look?
I dont think I'd make a special trip but if she is still there in June when I'm back in France let's take a look
LionsDen
Well-Known Member
Well, with a 3M budget, one could as well forget not just prejudices, but also toys overall, and go for a real ship instead.
Just as an example...
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatMergedDetails.jsp?boat_id=2523873
Thanks for sharing this with us but imho it looks more like a fishing vessell on the outside and as for the interior omg so dated - no style whatsoever - I think JFM can sleep soundly with the decision that he went for MatchII
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Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
There are really 3 things that SD/D boats have that most planing boats don't have. The first is bigger fuel tanks; most SD/D boats have larger fuel capacity and since we're going to be impoverished pensioners in a few years, being able to bunker in cheaper countries will be an issue. The second thing is a proper pilot house with decent helm seating and a chart table which is separated from the saloon and the third thing is wide side decks which you can walk around without shuffling sideways. Some mainstream planing boats can meet some of these requirements but I haven't seen one in 55-65ft range that can meet all of these requirements. However having said that, for reasons I don't really understand, mainstream planing boats are cheaper length for length than D/SD boats despite the fact that they tend to have bigger engines. I guess it's about production numbers and economies of scale. So, yes, I'm still tempted by a mainstream planing boat with stabs and on that subject, what do you think about these new electric stabs http://www.cmcmarine.com/stabilis-electra/? They seem to do everything hydraulic stabs do but in a more compact and more easily fitted package. Btw it was while researching these things on the net last night that I came across a certain Sleipner video on You Tube. I understand they wanted George Clooney but the budget only ran to some unknown Brit actor in dodgy shortsWell then maybe it really does make sense to forget any prejudices about hull shapes
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Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Yup, the finish is dreary but not untypical of smaller yards turning out D and SD boats. I don't want to blow Trevor's trumpet here but the only SD manufacturer I've come across producing boats with a modern finish to rival mainstream planing boats is Outer Reef.
Also no internal flybridge steps from the pilot house on this boat which IMHO is cheapskating on $4.5m boat. Also don't like the idea of gen set hydraulics driving the main shaft as an auxiliary. What happens when you foul the prop? Surely the whole point of an auxiliary get home drive is having a completely independent drive system. It's a lovely boat but it seems like the owner didn't quite have the budget to finish her
And I just know the SWMBO would moan about lugging fenders around with 20ft lines attached to them
benjenbav
Well-Known Member
Geez, have you guys got up in a bad mood today. That boat would be ideal if, say, the Queen Mary broke it's moorings and needed to be nudged back into the dock. It would absolutely fit in with the other tugs. Or, let's say, your kid's best friend was Tom Daley and he needed to keep in practice whilst he was staying with you.
Actually I rather liked it. But the interior could have used a bit more sparkle.
Actually I rather liked it. But the interior could have used a bit more sparkle.
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Yes
MapisM
Well-Known Member
That's the Onan genset that I know rather well, having owned 4 of them so far in the 23kva version. Same engine, not even different tune up, in the 23 and 27kva versions. Kubota 4 pot 3.3litres non turbo, IIRC 36hp @1500rpm. If it is US, 1800rpm, maybe it's 40hp. But after hydraulic and chain drive losses as you say, that wouldn't even make a good bowthruster for this baby let alone propulsion. So I am curious, because this doesn't feel like a ship that would contain such an engineering screw up
I dont think I'd make a special trip but if she is still there in June when I'm back in France let's take a look
Agreed re. not feeling like a badly engineered vessel - and even more so considering the yard reputation!
But hang on a minute re. the genset power. If a 36hp combustion engine could generate 37hp (27.5kW) of electric power, that would be rather a miracle than just outstanding engineering from Onan...!
In fact, I checked the specsheet, and in the 2nd page you can find the engine details:
http://www.cumminsonan.com/www/html/Common/pdf/specsheets/a-1494.pdf
It's indeed a 3.3 NA engine (they don't tell, but you're surely correct re. being it actually a Kubota), but rated for either 45 or 53 hp at 15/18 hundreds rpm respectively.
...talk about being spot on with my previous guess!
Btw, they also specify (3rd page) that the PTO is rated for a max output of 40hp, so we know what the hydraulic pump could generate at best.
Anyway, coming to think of it, I don't think it's correct to compare on one hand the b/t power required to move sideways 120T of a high draft, full D hull with a small, inefficient prop, and OTOH the power required to push her forward along her optimal hydrodynamic lines with a huge, highly efficient prop. It could be that it doesn't demand more than 40hp to pootle at 4 kts or so. Which is the typical speed of get home engines, anyway.
I suppose it also depends on how efficient the power transfer can be, from the genset engine to the shaft, via PTO, hyd pump, chain, whatever.
On paper, one advantage of such hydraulic system is that the power could be doubled (and/or the system made further redundant) with a PTO also on the second genset, but according to the ad only one of them has it...
Yep, I guess we must go and see her in flesh. If nothing else, it would be a good excuse for me to come and see also M2...
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Partly, but not only. If you look also at the cost/weight relationship, rather than just cost/length, it's usually the other way round - in spite of the much smaller engine(s) weight.
And no, it isn't just a matter of adding some ballast.
Actually, I'm not aware of any boat built with this type of deck design - which you shouldn't mistake with the RPH design: in this vessel, all decks cover the whole boat length - with internal stairs from the p/h to the upper helm.
In fact, many of these boats have no upper helm at all. You'd never use it in ocean crossings anyway, and there's no need to move rapidly from the p/h to the upper helm, as for instance while mooring, because you actually have a better visibility from the p/h, with its wide side decks and doors on both sides.
Re. your concern on the prop being fouled, give me a single rather than a twin boat any day.
The chances of fouling BOTH props at the same time in a twin screw boat are much higher than the chances to foul a single prop aligned with, and fully protected by, a huge keel+skeg.
In fact, if you would be unlucky enough to hit a huge net which fouls a main single prop, it's almost sure that 1) you'd be stuck also with both props on a twin boat, and 2) any separate get home engine you might have on a single boat would be equally involved.
Can't argue with your wife viewpoint, though. The long lines and huge fenders required for such battleship surely require some effort.
I suppose you could always try to tell her that it's a good way to stay fit, though...!
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Erik C
Well-Known Member
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Mmm... Not sure that's really MORE info.
As much as I've always liked what NM builds, websites design clearly isn't the area where they are more skilled...
