Boat fall tragedy in Weymouth

[lpdsn]

Correct, shouldn't speculate, but if you've got to release a prop wouldn't you add a temporary prop to take the load?

We shouldn't, but it's human nature to do so.

I'd expect you'd always add a temporary prop, but I've only ever been involved in temporarily releasing a prop when long-boarding. Why would you ever drop a prop for basic anti-fouling. Plenty of time to do the patches when the boat is in slings.

 

[dom]

I'd expect you'd always add a temporary prop, but I've only ever been involved in temporarily releasing a prop when long-boarding.

Why would you ever drop a prop for basic anti-fouling. Plenty of time to do the patches when the boat is in slings.

I guess the a/f doesn't get sufficient time to cure if it's painted on just 20 mins or so before launch - especially on a cool day. One can often see the patches when a boat is heeled over going to windward.

But re your first point. Many boats, including mine, are put in a cradle and then extra timber props are added with wedge chocks at the boat end.

Does anybody know how critical these are; i.e. if there is a safe windspeed limit for the cradle alone or whatever?

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Local paper has just released photo's of him. He was a father of five, just moved to Weymouth and a new club member, absolutely tragic.

That rings a bell, didn't a forum member recently move down there?

 

[BabySharkDooDooDooDooDoo]

But re your first point. Many boats, including mine, are put in a cradle and then extra timber props are added with wedge chocks at the boat end.

Does anybody know how critical these are; i.e. if there is a safe windspeed limit for the cradle alone or whatever?

I asked about having the many timber props moved when my boat was on the hardstanding at Hamble Point and was told it was fine to remove them.

As I wasn't entirely convinced by that response I put them back on once I was finished for the day.

 

[lpdsn]

I guess the a/f doesn't get sufficient time to cure if it's painted on just 20 mins or so before launch - especially on a cool day. One can often see the patches when a boat is heeled over going to windward.

But re your first point. Many boats, including mine, are put in a cradle and then extra timber props are added with wedge chocks at the boat end.

Does anybody know how critical these are; i.e. if there is a safe windspeed limit for the cradle alone or whatever?

It may be an issue with hard racing anti-foul. I remember long-boarding one boat where the patches were something completely different from the main anti-foul.

I've never had an issue with doing cruisey self-eroding anti-foul in slings. I've under the wings to do too so the patches are usually trivial in that context. I generally have time for the first coat to dry whilst doing under the keel and can sometimes even get a third coat on.

I think there's a lot of myth and lore re proping. I did try to calculate the loading on the cradle when Hurricane Ophelia decided to head for Ireland rather than Jamaica and it would've been quite substantial - although JD told me I'd used a very conservative calculation when I mentioned it in a subsequent thread.

I was very glad the yard put in extra props just for Ophelia but there was no damage at all in the yard as the hurricane had got bored after trashing Cork's football (soccer) ground.

 

[mlines]

Whilst he may have moved the pads we can only see the intact side of the cradle in the photos. It is quite possible that the cradle, which looks like a fairly old one may have failed due to wind pressure and rusted welds. Doubtless the enquiry will tell us due course, but I don't think we should be too quick to assume that the victim was the cause.

Given the "blue canvas" on the ground, this is where the accident occurred. The boat could be lying the other way following recovery of the victim

 

[SlimRick]

That rings a bell, didn't a forum member recently move down there?

I moved my boat down there last February. Similar sized boat, kids, and a member of one of the local sailing clubs. Lovely part of the world and such tragic news.

 

[horatio_nelson]

That rings a bell, didn't a forum member recently move down there?

Might possibly be me you're thinking of. I moved to Weymouth in August 2016.

 

[dom]

I think there's a lot of myth and lore re proping. I did try to calculate the loading on the cradle when Hurricane Ophelia decided to head for Ireland rather than Jamaica and it would've been quite substantial - although JD told me I'd used a very conservative calculation when I mentioned it in a subsequent thread.

Ahh yes, I remember those calcs - very useful basis for thought.

Agree with the lore comment, but I guess the lesson for those of us without the knowledge to disentangle fact from fiction, is to leave boat propping and de-propping to those who do?

 

[oldharry]

Yes, rightly or wrongly, but soon we will not be able to change a light bulb on our boats without having an "expert" do it.
They tried to do it with antifouling, a so called "professional" would need to do it.
To be a "professional" all you need to do is wear a mask, goggles and an anti radiation suit and your in.

Watch this space re antifouling: already for certain types of af you have to sign a disclaimer that you will use the appropriate safety gear when applying.. Its only a matter of time before the regs move on to having to produce a full HSE certificate to show you have 'done the course', which will of course cost a good deal of money to obtain!

 

[JumbleDuck]

Most newspaper reports are cut-and-paste, so will keep repeating errors.

And they are probably all using the same report from a local agency. Sad as it is, no national is going to send a reporter to Weymouth for "boat falls over".

 

[JumbleDuck]

Note that the forces on the prop are not horizontal: a horizontal force on the boat (e.g.wind) will not push the boat along sideways, but rotate it around its pivot point, which is the base of the keel it is standing on.

Actually, a horizontal force will push it along sideways, and give rise to sideways reactions (as well as any gravity-induced vertical ones) at the props and the keel. The magnitude of these forces will depend on the positions of the props and the centre of effort of the wind. I agree with your conclusion that the props are best high up, because the more vertical they are the less chance there is of slipping at them.

Port Bannatyne boatyard has just completed a process of replacing all the old cradles in the yard with nice new ones. I don't resent the £65 per winter I now pay to hire one.

 

[lpdsn]

Watch this space re antifouling: already for certain types of af you have to sign a disclaimer that you will use the appropriate safety gear when applying.. Its only a matter of time before the regs move on to having to produce a full HSE certificate to show you have 'done the course', which will of course cost a good deal of money to obtain!

The saving grace is that the UK government is snowed under with Brexit, the Irish government don't seem to have realised it yet but they will be too, the NI government have flounced off in the huff, so only the Scottish government currently have the spare time for rushing out nanny state legislation.

 

[davidej]

Legal maxim

"Hard cases make bad law".

 

[KREW2]

Correct, shouldn't speculate, but if you've got to release a prop wouldn't you add a temporary prop to take the load?

I have seen people drop a prop to antifoul under a pad, put a plastic bag over the pad and replace the prop within minutes.
You can usually get away with it on long keelers, and I have seen people do it on fin keelers.

However no boatyard would allow you to do this, and I wouldn't dream of removing any support, on any boat without adding a replacement.
I used to use an oil drum and wooden wedges, but about 7 years ago I bought a large single boat prop. It's paid for itself with the number of pints I get bought for lending it out.
As a self help club we have guidelines that are expected to be followed. Not just for safety but consideration of other club members.
This includes moorings, antifouling, and for those with steel boats grinding.

 

[lw395]

The other thing that works quite well with some boats/cradles is to use a ratchet strap to pull the port side down while working on stbd.

The main thing is to appreciate how much the wnd can rattle things around.

 

[chewi]

How come this tragic accident doesn't rate as "news" in the obligatory side panel?
Is a new irrelevant superyacht more newsworthy?

 

[Spyro]

We shouldn't, but it's human nature to do so.

I'd expect you'd always add a temporary prop, but I've only ever been involved in temporarily releasing a prop when long-boarding. Why would you ever drop a prop for basic anti-fouling. Plenty of time to do the patches when the boat is in slings.

What if it's pouring at the time you have booked a lift in?

 

[JumbleDuck]

How come this tragic accident doesn't rate as "news" in the obligatory side panel?
Is a new irrelevant superyacht more newsworthy?

Hey, the sinking of ninety boats and total destruction of a marina at Holyhead wasn't "news", so one poor sod's death in a boat yard can hardly be expected to count. Unless some company with an advertising budget puts it out as a press release, of course.

Yours cynically

JD

 

[pvb]

What if it's pouring at the time you have booked a lift in?

You can still slap some antifoul on. I usually book a lift in around lunchtime, so the guys bring the boatlift round before lunch, lift and hold in the slings, go to lunch. I get an hour to pop a couple of coats of antifoul on the pad patches. Then they come back and drop the boat in the water.