Boat fall tragedy in Weymouth

[DownWest]

Another forumite sent me a pic of his fin keeler dried out by a quai tilted back onto the rudder. Bout 25°

 

[Motor_Sailor]

The boatyard insurance companies don't scientifically look at the engineering merits of each one, they just use actuaries to look at 'how much do we pay out for boats that fall over using wooden props" versus "how much do we pay out for fallen boats in steel cradles".

The answer is clearly that a boat over wintering in a steel cradle is a much lower risk.
So they tell boatyards and marinas that the days of wooden props are over.

 

[longjohnsilver]

The boatyard insurance companies don't scientifically look at the engineering merits of each one, they just use actuaries to look at 'how much do we pay out for boats that fall over using wooden props" versus "how much do we pay out for fallen boats in steel cradles".

The answer is clearly that a boat over wintering in a steel cradle is a much lower risk.
So they tell boatyards and marinas that the days of wooden props are over.

Where do you get that information from?

 

[Motor_Sailor]

Where do you get that information from?

From my insurance company.

 

[longjohnsilver]

From my insurance company.

Seems strange that they say that. I see wooden props being used in every boatyard I go to.

 

[Motor_Sailor]

Seems strange that they say that. I see wooden props being used in every boatyard I go to.

I see the opposite. More and more boatyards are saying cradles only, especially if you want to keep your mast up.

I even know one that makes extensive use of wooden props, but admits their insurance company has told them not to. I was left wondering if the boat owners knew what would be at best, a very contentious matter if there was a domino fall.

 

[longjohnsilver]

I see the opposite. More and more boatyards are saying cradles only, especially if you want to keep your mast up.

I even know one that makes extensive use of wooden props, but admits their insurance company has told them not to. I was left wondering if the boat owners knew what would be at best, a very contentious matter if there was a domino fall.

Will be interesting to hear other people’s experience and what they are being told by their boatyards.

 

[Graham376]

The only benefit of steel cradles is they are quicker for the boatyard and allow the boat to be moved, chocked, in the boat mover. Well done wooden props have more redundancy and are arguably safer.

Wooden props are banned by insurers in the yard we use and I would suggest they see a much wider picture of claims than the average boat owner does. Well built steel frames are much safer but admittedly, there are some rubbish ones around as well.

 

[duncan99210]

Last time I had my Hurley 18 ashore in a yard I used the beaching legs which the yard supplemented with wooden props. Otherwise the yard policy is that all monohulls have to be in a cradle. More to the point, you can rent a cradle from them or buy one of their cradles because the cradles are designed to be lifted into place by their handling machine. For that reason they are not happy to allow you to use your own cradle unless the boat is too large (or too small) to fit.
Propping for boats too large or small is done using metal stands and tables. The only time wooden props and wedges are used is for very small craft using their own beaching legs.
The driver in this insistence on cradles, according to the yard, is the ease of mechanical handling. Once a boat is secure in its cradle, it can be easily moved from one place to another as circumstances require. If boats were in a variety of cradles which required some dissasmbley this would require more manpower and time, hence the yard's own cradle policy.

 

[RupertW]

When our GK24 fell over many years ago in a near hurricane on the Isle of Wight it was wooden props that caused it as they were attached to each other and the boat actually lifted slightly making two of them just fall away. Boats across the yard also fell over as did hundreds along the South coast. So almost every yard moves to cradles. But in the 30 odd years since I’ve seen props gradually reappearing as memories fade. Whatever you use it can’t rely on the weight of the boat to hold it all in place.

 

[steve350]

Boats in cradles at QAB

 

[lw395]

The only benefit of steel cradles is they are quicker for the boatyard and allow the boat to be moved, chocked, in the boat mover.
Well done wooden props have more redundancy and are arguably safer.

Both props amd cradles are only as good as the way they are used.
There is technique and skill required to chock a boat safely.

 

[Firefly625]

I always use Hamble Point as they use metal cradles. My Dad always did the same so I followed and in my opinion for a motor boat of our size there is nothing safer, she quite obviously isn't going anywhere...

Throw in a keel and things become a little different.. But I still would go with a metal cradle, shown here my Dad's boat, pretty hefty so a cradle and props always used by MDL. But in all the years I looked after my Dad's boat I never once moved a prop.

We specially never got lifted at Mercury in the past as they use wooden props, now MDL have taken control back from HYS there seems an investment in metal props, but no cradles as they do not have a cradle mover so I still go to HPM. This was the last accident, fortunately no fatalities in this case.

 

[prv]

We specially do not get lifted at Mercury as they use wooden props, now MDL have taken control back from HYS there seems an investment in metal props, but no cradles as they do not have a cradle mover.

Kemp's Quay on the Itchen use predominantly cradles - there used to be a couple of long-term yard projects on well-braced wooden props, and they might use blocks and props on some motorboats and lift-keelers that are staying low to the ground, but for yachts with keels they have a good stock of sturdy, albeit superficially scruffy and rusty, cradles. No "cradle mover" there, the boats go on the travelift and the empty cradles are shuffled around by fork-truck. Never had any worries about falling over.

Pete

 

[penberth3]

...

IMHO, that looks more like fire-wood than structural timber.

 

[Graham376]

Here's the yard built type we use, tie downs were added after a frame + boat slid sideways on a particularly lively night with reported gusts around 70 kts.

 

[Lucky Duck]

We specially never got lifted at Mercury in the past as they use wooden props, now MDL have taken control back from HYS there seems an investment in metal props, but no cradles as they do not have a cradle mover so I still go to HPM.

We were on the hardstanding last year at Mercury, not far from where those photos were taken. They now have substantial cradles (plus wooden props as per Hamble Point and Woolverstone) which they have a special 'tractor' to move to and from the travel hoist.

 

[Leighb]

The yard where I used to keep my wooden 20' boat for the winter always used wooden props. My boat was on grass, but they used wood props everywhere even on the concrete areas, there were a few cradles presumably supplied by the owners. In an October gale my boat fell over and sustained some damage, it was obvious that the props had sunk into the ground a bit and then there was enough slack for them to be dislodged.

The yard manager tried to blame me for the accident stating that I must have moved the props!! As this was only a week or so after layup I had not even been down to see the boat.

My insurer - Nav & Gen - recovered all repair costs from the yard and I had my excess refunded.

Anyway within days the yard guys were nailing cross braces to the props on every boat, and the following year all had to be on cradles. I heard from the guy at Nav and Gen that they used to insure this yard but refused to continue unless cradles were used. Presumably their next insurer did likewise after the accident.

 

[NormanS]

I always use Hamble Point as they use metal cradles. My Dad always did the same so I followed and in my opinion for a motor boat of our size there is nothing safer, she quite obviously isn't going anywhere...

Throw in a keel and things become a little different.. But I still would go with a metal cradle, shown here my Dad's boat, pretty hefty so a cradle and props always used by MDL. But in all the years I looked after my Dad's boat I never once moved a prop.

We specially never got lifted at Mercury in the past as they use wooden props, now MDL have taken control back from HYS there seems an investment in metal props, but no cradles as they do not have a cradle mover so I still go to HPM. This was the last accident, fortunately no fatalities in this case.

If that's your motor boat in the first pic, I would be fitting a centreline shore forward, before she hogs any more. I thought at first that she did have a shore, and then realised that the one shown, belongs to the boat behind.

 

[prv]

If that's your motor boat in the first pic, I would be fitting a centreline shore forward, before she hogs any more.

Doesn't look like she's hogging to me - the keel looks perfectly straight. I think you're seeing a curve in the way the initial vee turns into the round bilge.

Pete